The Liminalist # 138: Forms of the Underworld (with Branko Malić)

Return conversation (part one of two) with Branko Malić of Kali Tribune, on Branko’s primary training in philosophy, synchronicity, Carl Jung’s influence, prevailing cultural narratives, Branko’s problem with Jung, Jung’s seminary on Thus Spake Zarathustra, Jung’s influence on the Alt-Right and postmodern Satanists, negation of metaphysics, archetypes, materialistic metaphysics, Schopenhauer on Fate, the being of beings, striving for Nirvana, explaining causality, ancient notion of destiny, the pitfalls of occultism, looking up vs. looking down, Plotinus on eternity & time, the body contained inside the soul, Rene Guenon, Jung and the greater reality of the psyche, pursuits of intellect, nous, the risks of interpretation, on the other side of materialism, Belle Époque, the collective unconscious & phylogenesis, post-humanism, God-as-becoming, technological angel,  Plato & archetypes, the causality of God, a culture in individuation, something eternal, Tolkien’s non-modern mentality, a slippery slope of representing the eternal, Plato’s unwritten teachings, circling around realities, opposing the idea of progress, inverted spirituality, posts-Nazis and Nazism 2.0, tribalism & spirituality, metaphysical biology, forms of the underworld, in the direction of the particular, dissolving into nations, religion & race, old Jews, no word for race in Greek, Aristotle & ethos, the ability to enjoy tragedy, a history of philosophy, Plato as original social engineer, Plato’s dialogues, Republic as an image of the human soul, Apology of Socrates, individual against State, Plato as totalitarian or libertarian,  the fruits of their labor, Marxist state as scientific dictatorship, Nietzsche & Nazism, Thus Spake Zarathustra, thinking in contradictions, insubstantial man, Plotinus again, Satanism & Christianity, the inevitability of the deteriorating metaphysics.

KaliTribune.

Songs:  “Tisek” by Cinkusi (featuring Darko Rundek); “There Is a Light” and “Bodhi Song” by Rose Windows.

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4 Comments

  1. Asmonashati
    Posted December 16, 2017 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    If you would like to hear a sensible conversation concerning time, you may want to check out – clif high’s recent discussion. The Ever present now – time pt 2.

  2. Asmonashati
    Posted December 16, 2017 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Imagine you were born totally aware and conscious of everything around you. Conscious you were coming out of someone else’s body, joined to it by a bloody cord. That you are completely covered in blood, conscious of the dry air entering your lungs for the first time. The sharp sounds in your ears, the blinding lights in your eyes. Conscious that your bones are unbearably soft, and your life is so fragile it could disappear at any moment. That’s what being resurrected is like.

    • Jasun
      Posted December 18, 2017 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      this is a striking comment as it seems to be a response to a dialogue I have been having outside of this site, in a more private space…. are you remote listening? 😉

  3. Jasun
    Posted December 22, 2017 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    I have tried but so far failed to sum up “in a nutshell” Branko Malić’s reservations about Carl Jung, but it seems to have to do with what he sees as Jung’s modernist/materialist approach to the divine, which (I would guess) relates to Jung’s fascination for and appliance of occultism.

    My own reservations about Jung relate to his messianism, his embracing, in fact seeking, the role of world teacher, and of course, the fact that he achieved it, which can only mean he had HELP. Add to that his known association with CIA head Allen Dulles during the start of MKULTRA and his penning of the first serious book on flying saucers and, well, one has to at least wonder if there’s more to Jung’s output than meets the eye.

    And then there’s the fact, if fact it is, that he is big with Alt-Right and post-Nazis (according to Branko). Can this be seen as entirely coincidental, in light of Jung’s own aspirations to be an Aryan avatar? (My main source here is Richard Noll’s The Aryan Christ, which I found both readable and credible. However, Richard Noll is a known proponent of  “satanic panic” as an “explanation” for claims of ritual abuse, so once again we find ourselves in the rat’s nest. If we debunk the debunker, does that redeem the debunkee? As Znore responded to this question: “And, if the debunking remains valid even though the debunker has been debunked couldn’t the same allowance be made for the work of the debunkee?”

    The real question here seems not to be, was Jung a good guy or not, but what was he unconsciously transmitting through his work? What sort of hooks and tendrils might it contain that make it potentially misleading, and how best to identify and isolate these elements, in order to maximize the benefits of Jung’s output? One of the few books I truly value, at this stage of my cultural disfranchisement, is Donald Kalsched’s The Inner World of Trauma, and Kalsched was a Jungian. That indicates that Jung’s work CAN be applied in healthy and productive ways, as well as not so much.

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