The Liminalist # 173: Nefarious Forces (with Douglas Valentine)

Conversation with Douglas Valentine, author of The CIA as Organized Crime, on the Phoenix Program, how American got into Vietnam, US support of South Vietnam government & military, an intelligence war, black propaganda in Vietnam, the CIA shell game, how the US perfected terrorism before declaring war on it, military involvement in the Phoenix Program, violating the rules of land warfare, terrorizing a population into submission, how to discourage guerilla warriors, creating sympathy for the CIA devil, psyops against the US population, organized crime and drug trafficking, US stated and unstated reasons for being in Vietnam, South Vietnam Buddhism, empowering the Catholic minority & creating a collaborative bourgeoisie, the opium trade, drug franchises, CIA-Laos cartel & the world market, CIA-Mafia drug trade, chased out of Laos, relocating in Mexico, the Mexican drug cartels and CIA death squads, guns into Mexico, American imperialism in Mexico, CIA infiltration of US society, Homeland Security, manufactured complicity, shaped by nefarious forces.

Doug’s site

Songs: “Slouching Towards Bremen” by Geoff Berner; “These Words Are Yours,” by Hazelwood Motel

18 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 173: Nefarious Forces (with Douglas Valentine)”

  1. If this is information about the CIA is accurate I have to wonder how long it will take for a.) the CIA to do it to the natives and b.) how long it will take for those who’ve been bullied for 60-plus years to get together and avenge themselves with the all the wrath of a century of hate and rage.

    Tick Tock.

  2. Awesome. Just ordered The CIA As Organized Crime.
    Oh to have one of those paperback copies of The Phoenix Program..
    Douglas has some rare birds on amazon.

    I’d listen to more.

  3. I vote YES for Doug coming back with more time.

    Perhaps Jasun can send an outline of written questions and then read them aloud for the audience during the interview, improvising as needed (using Skype chat?). I really appreciate Jasun’s style of asking compelling questions and listening deeply.

    The hearing difficulties can be surmounted and, I think, should be (along with time constraints) to deliver an interview of typical Liminalist quality.

    I was pleasantly surprised that Jasun landed an interview as I’ve just been reading The Phoenix Program for the first time.

    Doug if you’re reading this I can’t wait to hear more, hopefully. Love your work, and your interviews I’ve heard on The Opperman Report and other places.

    I also hope the interview can go deeper or even “off road” a bit as Jasun is good at asking questions no one else asks.

  4. I’ll add to the pile of bring Valentine back. (I think I’ve heard every one of his interviews over the years. He always has a new gem of information.)

    By the way, those interviews are never in the MSM or from slightly right or left-of-center sources. No one wants to touch, with a barge pole, the fundamental fact that a bunch of scum Ivy League graduates (in the main) – the so-called paragon of wealth, merit and virtue – are, in fact, evil incarnate. And have been for generations.

    (The same can be said for Oxbridge graduates. The example the OSS started with…!)

  5. Dear Jasun,

    Really enjoyed this exchange- as a triage RN 1968-70 during that period I was aware of the duplicity of our intentions- It wasn’t until I read Acid Dreams ( highly recommended, too) that I understood the real story- Your guest is extremely articulate to offer a synopsis in his brief moment of time- Look forward to a future cast. Thanks

    Susan Frey, PhD.ND

  6. The Phoenix Program may be gradually making its way into public awareness via the TV drama show ‘Shooter’. The third season features a story arc dealing with Phoenix and does so without changing the name of the Program – I wonder if Doug Valentine is aware of the show.

  7. Hi Jasun, yes it’s me. Longtime lurker but first time commenter on this particular podcast.
    Still appreciating your work 😉

  8. Very pleased to hear Mr. Valentine on the Liminalist podcast, two of my favorites colliding in a beautiful way. Would love to hear more. This podcast leads very well into the current (replay) of the Twit Wit Radio podcast.

  9. Yes more of Valentine, thanks Jasun. I too purchased The CIA As Organized Crime. I appreciate how his work helps shade in some of those dark structures that your work is examining – hitting around similar edges. Thanks man

  10. A bit late seeing this, it was sent by a fellow Vietnam vet today.

    I’m also an admirer of Doug Valentine and his courageous and important exposés, so this is not a criticism, just an observation: I thought Doug soft-pedaled the position of the “government” of South Vietnam and its subservience to the U.S. government and military.

    It was not simply a client relationship in which the U.S. intervened to support of a weak, corrupt, existing government against a threat from the government of North Viet Nam and its army.

    In fact, there was NO South Vietnamese government until the U.S. created it whole, in violation of the Geneva Agreements.

    Once we created this governmental structure in the southern half of the country (complete with judiciary, legislature, executive branch, police) and recognized it as an independent nation, we persuaded many of our allies to do the same.

    Then we and our South Vietnamese clients, President Ngo Dinh Diem and his administration, cancelled the nationwide elections guaranteed by the Geneva Agreements in 1956 because it was a certainty that Ho Chi Minh would win a free and fair national election.

    Seems to me that’s a rather important distinction which surprises most Americans when they learn the facts.

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