Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:20:51 — 74.0MB)
Subscribe: RSS
First part of conversation with Znore of Groupname for Grapejuice, on the origins of “Znore,” the end of Stormy Weather, Aeolus in Afghanistan, Znore in Canada, rainbow gathering in Atitlan, life in Guatemala, the gathering of the tribes, being the center of the eschaton, being a drug shaman, DMT & salvia divinorum, Chinese whispers in community, Jasun’s Being the One stunt, Lucifer inhabiting, Castaneda, Crowley, & being tricked by texts of empowerment, degrees of trauma, when the psyche isn’t embodied, McLuhan’s tactility & the interplay between the senses, the common sense of synesthesia, before the Fall, a world of objects & a world of energy, identifying mind stuff, phantom clues of the mind, everything is inside, finding the lies in literature, following pure sensation, discerning sources, applying knowledge, a pop cultural swap, a rich relationship with culture, cultural deconditioning, Neti Neti, watching the icons fail, abuse and archetypal possession, a life on the run, MK-CULTUR and the tip of the mind control iceberg, the notion of debt, siddhis & being indebted to the spirits, society & the state, the spirit world & the fractured psyche, Christ & Satan in the wilderness, the siddhi of synchronicity, false enchantments.
Songs: “El Mariachi” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Repro” by Big Blood; “Hope Against Hope” by Wooden Ambulance.
Yeah i parted company with Grapejuice when he mentioned this striving for the eschaton bit. True enough were plunging deeper into an age of reflection which some believe is a cyclical chimp sleep that befalls all exhausted civilisations . I think if one pursues Siddhis for materialistic and/ or manipulative ends , one is asking for trouble. As someone who records all dreams , intuitions , synchronicities and deja vus , i get them readily enough , but i never ask them for anything . Ocassionally they move me out of harms way, warn me to brace or remind me where or i left the wrench or how to solve a problem , but one must keep this in perspective strictly as byproduct. ( i do however , thank “them ” when they have seemingly made my life more convenient . Beware a sense of urgency with the Djinn , they are wicked tricksters as well. They are what they are and as grapejuice said , you can invest as much credence into them as you are willing to risk ,but that would be a dead end in “spiritual” terms .
Anyway , looking at you now Jasun , your occult path has turned out pretty well , and one could argue your whole unhappywanderer/ psychedelic shamanic trip did a marvellous job of bringing you face to face with the shade and forcing you to sink or swim . There must be plenty of poor souls who dont survive such shenanigans .
Cheers mate
Sorry to hear that we’ve parted ways, Kutamun. I don’t think, though, that I’ve reached any sort of a resolution on “striving for the eschaton.” My main point is that history itself cries out for it. History actually implies this.
My post “Old Thoughts On The Nightmare” — which I think you are referring to — contrasts the stance of letting history play out its course, and thereby taking everything down with it, with that of actively trying to make this happen sooner in the off chance that something might be saved. This is essentially the stark choice that the Unabomber posed in his manifesto.
The post is called “Old Thoughts” because that is what they are — a journey entry from years back. My more recent thoughts arrive in the last paragraph of the post, under the subheading “Postwake” — after the Wake:
–And yet here is where it all turns inward, upon itself. History is also an imaginary abstraction, an empty phantasm. There is no history in the woods, in the stars, in your cells. What history? Whose history? The primal entirely subsumes the cyclical and the linear. The narrative rope is frayed into a thousand brittle threads, each an eyed tendril observing its own world. All technology is only an elaborate extension of this. The Story is the spell. The miracle has always been here. The nightmare of the word has already been overthrown by the images assembled in our hearts. —
Thanks for the feedback.
Very nice conversation thanks. Contemplating “touch“, this is Sonia Rochel , with her technique for traumatised new-borns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPSAgs-exfQ
She has good technique; but I would lower the lighting (though I know this would ruin the vid for us)
Question: when Satan confronted Christ in the wilderness and offered him power over heaven and earth, we say Christ rejected him but in fact what he said was “Get thee behind me, Satan” which when you think about it is not a rejection but an invitation to follow – and in a way an acknowledgement that our boy was already ahead, had been there/done that therefore no rejection necessary, but rather an admonishment or (even) an offer to help Satan get over his power fixation
Yes? No?
, an acknowledgement
Great observation. Thank for that!
My afterthought was that Christ showed “skilful means” in handling his enemy. Not that different from a good pruning but did the Devil recover and thrive, or was the new growth just temporary? I’m thinking of the Church i suppose.
This conversation with Znore was like a deep dreamfull sleep.
Great talk. A lot of good conversation directions and interesting ideas.
I wanted to say something on the idea of the “growth through adversity meme” from my perspective as a horticulturist. There is a popular misconception, or a miss understanding of the significance of certain biological responses of plants to pruning (or injuring, for no matter how good a cut it is still registered as an injury from the plants point of view). There is a belief that pruning stimulates growth. Which is true. The incorrect part is the positive emphasis given to the process. The injury promotes growth in the same manner as a scraped knee promotes new skin. The plant does have to adapt to a new situation, and a new physical disposition to whatever degree. The plant will indeed produce a burst of growth in response to the loss of photosynthetic body material. However it will never (particularly after a “bad” cut) make ia return to its evolutionarily emergent form. Eventually dying from disease or rot caused from bad cut.
A tree or plant in its evolutionary ideal spot will thrive.
Thanks again
I will go out on a limb and say these growth patterns are similar in practice for animals as well as plants.
It’s a compelling analogy, & I had no idea. The notion of pruning has a more or less 100% positive association; what you’re describing is similar to how bodybuilding works, the metaphor Strieber uses in The Key for spiritual growth.
I will also add that a tree or plant can be manipulated to produce many times more fruit for human consumption than a typical “naturally grown” tree or plant. This however takes many years off the trees life.
I’m not sure Striebers point of view, with regards to the no pain no gain. Is he referring to the pain one goes through by coming to truths ( both comfortable and non) and subsequent personal and collective growth?
It’s broken down in POI, chapter of same name (no pain no gain).
Hi Travis , can you tell me if a forest is hierarchical , or direct me to a good writer on about same ??
Obviously distinctions are neccisary so as to move. Really nothing can claim to be an indipendant existence. As a jar of muddy water shaken will settle when left alone. So to a forest will always move towards a equilibrium.
It can be seen that there are a large variety of species within a forest system. I guess to gage the health of a forest, just as any system I can think of, one would look at it as a whole.
When really looked at I think someone can notice that all hierarchal distinctions are arbitrary.
Jasun, wouldn’t you say that a disembodied psychie is only a phenomena of a body system? Could one say that the psychie is to the body as music is to a guitar? And even if the music is recorded and played miles away from guitar, could you say that it is now independant from guitar?
I am starting to come to terms with consciousness ( as in being aware of some apparent distinction between self and other) as entirely reliant on a seemingly endless array of “subsystems” together creating a sort of collective that perceives itself as a me.
Travis
Jasun, wouldn’t you say that a disembodied psychie is only a phenomena of a body system? Could one say that the psychie is to the body as music is to a guitar? And even if the music is recorded and played miles away from guitar, could you say that it is now independant from guitar?
————————————————————
By “body system” do you mean “agent?”
Travis, in your analogy is the guitar the agent?
Seems to me the music cannot come from the guitar until it first comes from the player?
And the guitar player can’t play until he has a guitar?
So the first guitar could not have been produced by a guitar player?
It had to have been produced by a player who played with himself?
Sorry,
I’ll see myself to the door.
…perhaps being disembodied is part and parcel of becoming embodied. Otherwise how would one know?
After hearing back today’s podcast convo, combined with Kutuman’s recent comment and other stuff, I am starting to wonder if psyche is a strictly necessary proposition & if it’s possible to talk about it in body terms. I don’t really think so but it would be fun to try.
Do we believe that consciousness can individuate and or/ already exist as an individual unit of awareness distinct from consciousness “at large”? I used to write about how souls do not exist but must be made through examined living, in which case the same would be true of the psyche. Yet I don’t really believe this about souls anymore (tho there is something).
Disembodiment would be part & parcel of becoming embodied if infants exist outside the body as consciousness before becoming fully embodied, and if this is the process that gets hijacked via traumagenesis. Were it to happy naturally maybe we would have memory of, that is, access to, an experience of being outside as well as inside the body, of being temporal & eternal at the same time?
That is the desired state that we are seeking which could be called our natural birthright, except that “rights’ have nothing to do with Nature.
A bee hive is a good example here. The hive is made of individual bees ( made of other individual things, onward and so forth) who together form a collective mind. Hive mind. So is the hive mind conciousnes existant as a soul or some other identity independent of the body ( individual bees and the comb ) outside of just potential? Dosnt seem so. So to the hive mind of my body ( the collective me of all the endless array of subsystems( organs, cells, etc)) would likely not have, outside potential to exist, an existence independent of all its components.
I would also think that the bees would be , for the most part, unawares of the hive mind, or atleast that they are a separate entity