The Liminalist # 61: Guiding Fictions (with Robin S. Eubanks)


Part one of a conversation with lawyer-researcher Robin S. Eubanks, on accidental beginnings, healthcare and education overlap, integrated math and National Science Foundation, following the money, behavioral sciences, psychology & education, the Fabian thread, the Ford Foundation, collusion vs. conspiracy, standardization & adaptive learning, pushing virtual reality via education, Anthony Giddens’ “Third Way,” seeding false beliefs to generate action, outcomes based education, complexity, & newspeak, inadvertent change agents, open social engineering, the implementation of Common Core, the implications of a science of the mind, “personalized’ learning for reconditioning, Center for Advanced Studies in Behavioral Science, London School of Economics and Tavistock, herd control & shared meanings, Wilfreds Trotter & Bion, the two types of human, resistive & sensory types, the ax-maker mind, steering the herd, the elite’s disregard for common sense, creating a conflict of interest, appealing to greed, polarization of thought & ideology, coordinated efforts, benign language for covert agendas, altering mental models, growth mindset, creating a work force, WIOA, planning the economy, Jasun’s education, when facts trigger negative feelings, when opinions rule, preventing autonomy, emotion-based motivation, the two arms of media and education, dynamic systems theory, the “as-if” philosophy, sabotaging self-education, backward mapping, re-engineering students via the environment, the immigration question, how media uses personalized issues to seed narratives & manipulate perception, Marx’s magic technology, the hidden use of schools.

Robin’s blog.

Songs: “El Mariachi”  by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Gone Away,” & “Otherworld Lullaby” by Cullah; “Neuron One,” “Manic, & “Neuron Two,” by Kirk Pearson & Julia Egan.

11 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 61: Guiding Fictions (with Robin S. Eubanks)”

  1. To me this is probably the most powerful and relevant liminalist podcast i have yet heard, and i have heard them all . It points toward the heart of what this podcast series is trying to illustrate , the real world consequences of the network of connections Jasun is making between the new age , education , social engineering . A couple of names Robin stopped short of mentioning are Adler , with his “guiding fictions”. Also Hans Vaihinger , with his philosophy of “As- If ” . These are of a line of germanic philosophers that track back through Nietzsche , but also Schopenhauer , Herder, DeMaistre , the renaissance chappies such as Vico, all very counter enlightenment ( Isaiah Berlin) . All very Platonic and dare i say it “Druidic”. This points to the fact that our corporate masters , the owners of capital have a very Platonic view of the world , and believe themselves to be the philosopher class of wise men best fitted to rule the rest of us , for whom a form of mildly nationalistic corporate socialism will suffice . Prisoners of our feelings and emotions and locked into unyielding and unhelpful patterns of binary thought , ridiculously easy to trigger and manipulate . To be fair to someone like John Michael Greer , no one has done more to alert me to the usefulness of logic and critical thinking than he , and although he may be entangled in some of the elements i outline , it is no doubt a broad and vast church which he is nowhere near the apex of .
    The thing that intrigues me most is why are all these counter enlightenment and ” will to power ” types Germanic . Is there something intrinsic to that part of the world stretching back to antiquity that periodically rears its head when conditions are ripe?? . To quote JMG , as a flea in Beethovens Wig ( earth) it can be difficult to have an overarching conception of what the planet is doing and what is its agenda , if any . There you go , as Vaihinger ( and JMG) says , to paraphrase , we can at best produce mental models of reality and theres another one !
    Now, off to weed the garden and enjoy rhe autumn sunshine , its grand to be alive !

  2. I should also mention Darwinism and scientism are implicit in Vaihingers weltanschauung , hence the controllers imagining they are benevolently advancing the cause of evolution by “standardising” us all . John Michael Greer has specifically denounced the Hegelian concept of linear evolution , so there is another point of departure. Its most likely that the controllers are mixing and mashing different elements of thought just like the rest of us do. After all we are all chimps circling around on a big blue ball for no apparent reason , despite their high opinion of themselves and the human project .
    Banana sandwiches for lunch again .

  3. Dear Jasun,

    Totally agree with Kutamun’s assessment- and Robin is a very credible and powerful voice. My own experience in early 2000 as a speaker at Harvard’s Learning and the Brain Conference in Boston and now also in CA, on early neuroscience’s influence regarding health and education colluding to
    ” standardize” the population via ” the brain” fits right in to this paradigm. I retired from ” the game” in 2003 because I knew where it was headed. Thanks, Jasun, for your own research and connection to these informed people . Yes, it is time for lunch again…but no bananas.

  4. Howdy Susan ,
    Yes i suppose its helpful to keep in mind that a counter enlightenement is unfolding all by itself in terms of linits to the biosphere , and we can expect more of the philosophies and political structures to spring up that support the new zeitgeist . See , i already love German words. I cant imagine children in solar powered medieval villages were encouraged to think critically and force their masters to share power . If we go off a financial / climate / resource cliff , this scenario lends itself to feudalism . I am sure the Vatican and the various deposed nobilities of Europe have not gone away , but are merely waiting patiently for this fossil fuel madness which swept away the old structures, to end.

    • You nailed it Kutamun. This is why Robin named her blog, Sustainable Feudalism for all is exactly what they imagine will be delightful for all of us.

  5. Blatant example of behavioral engineering in the province of Ontario where the new sex ed program is being spread through academic subject, e.g. in English and Math classes kids will learn about gender topics, and one kindergarten teacher was featured in the Toronto Star describing how she shared personal stories about her same-sex marriage with 5.and 6 year old students … this is the Future. Parents are blindsided …

  6. I was wondering about the various IQ tests. I know that the IQ test was invented by a French psychologist (whose name I can’t remember) early in the 20th century. The French government assigned him the task of developing a diagnostic tool for identifying students in need of remedial and special education. Then some years later, the US government assigned scientists the task of modifying the test, creating variants and adaptations of it to place soldiers according to job or task complexity.

    I was fascinated with the whole controversy around IQ and even read Stephen J. Gould’s The Mismeasure of Man, but now the controversy is gone and no one seems to talk about IQ in relation to education anymore. I think Gould attacked the notion of a measure of human intelligence based of the vagueness of the word “intelligence,” and that the various definitions of it were unfocused and contradictory and the theory behind it involving the fallacy of reification whereby intelligence, in this case, is “explained” by a factor, Q in this case, that is merely a label given the status of an objective, causal agent, a thing.

  7. Forget italics–I don’t know it stop. In the future I’ll just indicate book titles as _The Mis-measure of Man_.

  8. The “As-If” philosophy mentioned @1:04:10 (how it doesn’t matter if something is true, but only if it’s useful if believed) is the definition I’ve heard given for ‘Chaos magick.’ Of course, practitioners of Chaos magick are presumably aware of its ‘make-believe’ aspect when they consciously decide to use it…

  9. Wow, excellent episode. Her blog, though it’s a little difficult to maneuver through, is absolutely jaw dropping – and it’s still going.


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