The Liminalist # 39: Ancestral Patterns (with Natasha Horsley)


An intimate conversation with couple’s therapist (and cousin) Natasha Horsley, on the Horsley Wikipedia links, what is a conspiracy theorist, Nick Horsley’s BBC work,  the emphasis on research, a hole in the past/psyche, secret family history and secret British history, Alec’s aspirations, the Horsley ambition, elitism and narcissism, seeking love itself, the need for validation, the self-destructive drive for fame, money for love/being bought off, Alec’s lifelong struggle, the ups and downs of the ancestors, the changing context of elitism, Wilfred Trotter, Wilfred Bion, & the Tavistock Institute, resistives and sensitives, the herd instinct and social control, the politics of the group, dependents, counter-dependents, and independents, the rebellious instinct and negative identity, social engineering, an untrue intellect, the dependency of control, being a Horsley woman, Alec’s depression, the false persona, Sebastian and the dandy’s credo, Havelock Ellis and early psychedelic experimentation, Alec’s secret life, disowning the inner victim, aligning with the power, sexual freedom in the Horsley home coupled with sexual repression, the question of private drug experimentation, recognizing ancestral patterns, self-engineering with LSD, how we were conned, the cover story, the risk-takers, the quest for self-worth, a circular path.

Occult Yorkshire: Fabian Family Secrets and Cultural Engineering in the UK (Intro)

More about Natasha’s work.

Songs: “El Mariachi” & “Monkey Said,” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Cause for Alarm,” by The Heavy.

16 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 39: Ancestral Patterns (with Natasha Horsley)”

  1. Fabulous job editing and turning our conversation into a podcast Jasun. I kept thinking about synthesis as I listened to it. This idea seemed to occur on many levels, both between our different perspectives and within the topics and themes themselves. How cool! There is a Jewish saying, “The bigger the front, the bigger the back” that I think of a lot when I think about our family. And I think you and I are both working/have both worked hard to synthesize and understand our family’s history in both these extremes, and everything in between, in our own more or less liminal ways! Thanks for sharing your quest and listening to mine. That means a lot to me.

  2. Thanks for joining up with Jasun on his exploratory expedition Natasha – it feels good that he has a collaborator in you. And thanks to you both for doing the work here. The process – i.e you two together – feels reassuring; the content more provocative, of course, and disturbing. And highly resonant. Not least your bringing in the elitism seemingly embedded in being Horsley – my dreams are still full of this as Jasun will attest to.
    I felt the absence of Susan – her mystery: her physical presence so huge and no doubt her influence ditto; yet her place in the story so shrouded and remote. What kind of startling dissonance between her persona and her darkness??
    Keep up the good work. x

    • Thanks for your encouragement and feedback! Now that I think about it – you’re exactly right about Susan. To tell you the truth I feel a little protective of her. I think she got quite a bad rap in her life time, both as ‘long suffering’ and as an unnurturing mother, but as a granddaughter I loved her very much. I’m not saying I didn’t have a complicated relationship with her also, nor that ambition and elitism weren’t important aspects of her character and thus a big part of our heritage too. However I did say that it’s been very easy to be/feel overlooked as a Horsley woman also, and I guess this proves it! I hope all is well with you and yours!

  3. A great insight into many things but especially those things hidden within your family narrative. This podcast made me think a lot about my own family mythologies and that shadow (or shadows) that we co-create.

  4. I think you have tapped into a pattern here that is common to many lefties . In my own patch , i see fairly timid , innocuous people who seem to love power and elitism within groups , while affecting much collective concern . Terrified of their own buried victmhood eh ? I like it a lot , thanks mate ..
    Within myself , i like to be the observer of both the dependent and independent , it would seem we mimic the behavioural patterns of our zookeepers , wouldnt it ..
    Really enjoying ” the lucid view”, and have tracked down some pdfs of valdamars ” matrix” series , very powerful when handled as internal metaphor this stuff , it is sparking some pretty wild dreams and coincidences . Dont think my grays are happy !

  5. Dear Jasun,
    I wrote this verse several years ago at a Writers Workshop:
    ORIGINS What to know about self…
    Who come ‘ fore ?
    Who came aft’ ?
    A body of molecules bathed in conflicting genes.
    An ancestry long buried in our backyards.
    What to know and
    There seems no knowing.
    Thank you for posting your exploration with a reliable family member- it does tweak my own memories ( good and not-so ) and may offer inspiration for others to dig deep. Love your stuff!

  6. With no ancestry/family/origins, I’ve never been clear if it’s been a bad or good thing. Not that I could know the difference.

    Being a wage-slave (of the herd) since 17 I’m convinced that the master/slave, rule/ruled theories are reversed. I’m certain that the herd wants to be ruled. You tell me and my kind that the farmer is gone and the fence gate is open, we’ll all just stay where we are and hope the new farmer is a Lefty/Liberal. Every 4 years we might Moo an X on a piece of paper, but we’re not going anywhere. We are thoroughly domesticated, Pareto’s Circulation of the Elite.

    Each podcast is better than the last. Congrats. A real pleasure.

    • If the ruled wanted to be ruled does that reverse the dynamic? It doesn’t make them rulers; it also leaves out the question of how the rulers may be breeding the desire to be ruled into the herd, by ‘appealing’ to the herd instinct…

      • Perhaps “wants” implies a choice for the herd, a poor word choice on my part.

        I’m aiming at the idea that passivity (or slave-ness or ruled-ness) are traits acquired over time. Not fighting back, following orders, enjoying wage-slavery might guarantee a longer life. I know the farmers I work with let their animals pasture, and the ones that stay away from predators and make it back for food and water get bred.

        Evolutionary hoo-ha is fashionable right now, cause for skepticism certainly. I don’t think, though, that the concept of human domestication should be dismissed because of it.

        The “Rulers”, too, don’t necessarily have to be a all powerful movie-type evil villains. They could well be outliers in the right environment/circumstances.

        I’m not qualified to know how valid this is, but it sure is food for thought:

  7. I also liked the part about leftists even though the right usually has the exact opposite issues as lefties. Overall, I guess this has much to do with splits, or imbalances, between mind, body, intellect, and intuition.

  8. Jasun,

    Thank you for this discussion and Occult Yorkshire series as well! A friend of mine and I research and investigate current and past goings on in education/supporting legislation and more often than not we find ourselves falling down the rabbit hole of the Fabians and all of their connections to elite power players and various underworld shenanigans. Its endless. And fascinating and enlightening. So many connected areas. The more I see how the masses have been manipulated the more clearly I ( think) I understand our present cultural circumstances.
    Can I also offer a warm ” Hello! ” to Natasha? As my friend linked me to your blog I was surprised/not surprised to see that she was your cousin. Horsely is after all not a common name. We met when she and her family moved to MD in the late 70’s. I actually think we live in the same vicinity even now. ( Mari is my name, my brother who was friends with her brother is Martin) Thanks again for the digging Jasun. I get the almost compulsivity. It is fun, it is intriguing and when bits of the puzzle start to fall into place the realizations are nothing short of stunning imho.
    All the best


Leave a Comment