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Part one of a return conversation with author Louis Proud, on fending off unconstructive criticism, writing a novel, John Michael Greer’s writing career, failing to read Dune, the mechanics of trauma and psychism, was Frank Herbert an insider?, NASA & Scenario Planning, seeding new generations with techno-fantasies, a biography of L. Ron Hubbard, Battlefield Earth, ancient astronauts, Hubbard Jr., and the hidden purpose of $cientology, hyperstition, Strieber’s early novels, Alien Hunter’s plot holes, the latest X-Files, counting on nostalgia, legitimizing Whitley, demonizing terrorists, Jeffrey Kripal & The Super Natural, rebooting the abduction narrative, Kripal’s tenure in academia, intelligence community involvement, why won’t Kripal talk about Esalen-CIA links, Whitley’s lies, selling the non-materialist paradigm, seduced by the marketing, Edgar Mitchell, Strieber’s missing summer of 68, dried owls and human skins, Process Church, Martin Sharp, the opposite of digging, Kripal’s abuse of woo & double standard, keeping conspiracy off-limits, alien abduction versus satanic ritual abuse narratives, Carol Rainey on Budd Hopkins, discussing the second-hand shop business, how everyone has issues around money.
Songs: “El Mariachi” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Nothing Left,” by Brown Bird; “Cumbia de Los Barros,” by El Hijo de la Cumbia.
Second-thought alt. title: “A Saucer is Not a Hat”!
I liked the part about sci fi meme seeding ..
“Wells’s novel may even have influenced the development of nuclear weapons, as the physicist Leó Szilárd read the book in 1932”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Set_Free
Excellent interview and topics. I totally agree that you need to interview Carol Rainey. Budd Hopkins was Strieber’s main source of disinformation about alien abductions, so anything you can find-out about Hopkins connections to his UFO interests is of primary concern to what happened to Strieber too. Plus, Carol would likely have personally known both of the Strieber’s too! This is a “must do” interview. I will be happy to provide some critical questions to ask her too.
Also, Jasun, you are so exactly right to know that much information can be found on the audio interviews that Strieber does. This is where much missing information is often found, AND it is also where many contradictions and misleading statements are found vs his previous history.
Have you listened to most of his audio posted online? What about his Art Bell and other radio interviews in the ’90’s?
Btw, I think you are the best person Ive heard doing these kinds of interviews. Your voice is needed to counter and question much of the BS and social engineering going on with the Occult and paranormal and the PTB.
I’ve read/listened to POI and many of your other remarks on Mr. Streiber. You have brought up his ‘lying’ about his sex life a few times but I’m not really understanding the importance of this to you and your thesis?
I mean his wife of many years was suffering from the cancer that would kill her while he was writing this book, maybe he just didn’t want to push that in her face? Or, heaven knows, plenty of people just have cruddy memories or change their minds about how they interpret certain events over the years. Personally, I remember the first guy i had sex with but not the first time – I just don’t really care about that much and spend my time thinking about other things.
Given his prodigious output, I doubt he has the luxury to be collating and rectifying everything he has ever written/said with everything else each time he sits down to write. That does take time, money and attention. But what do i know.
https://auticulture.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/all-work-and-no-play-pain-striebers-missing-summer-of-68-prisoner-of-infinity-vii/
A few days after listening to “Pain” and discovering these peculiar facts, while reworking this current chapter, I listened to a 1986 recording of a hypnosis session between Strieber and UFO-researcher Budd Hopkins. The focus was on Strieber’s missing time experience in the summer of 1968. During the session, Strieber remembers traveling to Rome with a mysterious woman and being joined by some other people. He is able to remember these people only peripherally, as shadowy figures at the edge of the scenes. He remembers telling his “life story” in great detail to the woman, “twice or three times.” He recalls that the woman told him she grew up in Ireland (McLean was Scottish, the fictional Janet is given an Irish name), and describes having sex with her more than once. On at least one occasion, he remembers other people in the room, directing the sex act and manipulating his body! One of the rooms he finds himself in was reportedly an “operating theater that was supposedly a bedroom.”[3]
oh i’m well aware of all that. I just don’t understand what about someone having two different ‘stories’ or ‘memories’ about their sex life is so important to what it is you’re trying to say about Mr. Streiber.
I’m not trying to be dense or pedantic, i just don’t understand.
Well at least that makes us even! Perhaps someone else can intercede for me & explain it to you, as we appear to have reached a reality gulf.
Our different takes on this matter is most likely because I have never run across a person who has described their sex life in exactly the same way over the years or decades. They leave events/people out, the sex goes from fantastic to awful or vice versa, infections and abortions and even children get left out or glossed over or suddenly come out in the open…
…whether or not this state of affairs is healthy or as it ideally should be, who knows. But sex and intimacy are so fraught in this society, someone ‘fudging’ things like that is in my experience par for the course. And even more common in people of Mr. Steiber’s generation.
And for the record the great bulk of people i have known who convey muddled records of their sexual history are completely reliable and trustworthy in many other areas. Thus, I really don’t find Mr. Streibers actions in the example shocking or to be a smoking gun of a huge character failing (which I think is your point?). Your mileage may vary, as they say.
It is par for the course for someone to “fudge” the fact that their first sexual experience involved meeting a mysterious woman in Europe, being drugged with a bitter tasting fruit, surrounded by shadowy figures and physically manipulated on an “operating table,” hallucinating a red face in the catacombs of the Vatican, and a human skin with a living eye found in the woman’s suitcase ~ all of which was recorded in a key hypnosis session and posted at your website for its supposed connection alien contact experiences twenty years later?
“Perhaps someone else can intercede for me & explain it to you..”
Well if you can’t express it that’s fine, i was just curious.
Yes, I have seen and heard some real whoppers in my time from people who were generally decent people who overall had their stuff together. Generally, it seems people like their life to cohere to some sort of sensible narrative, and they like to ‘forget’ about whatever happened in the past that doesn’t fit neatly into that narrative.
Sex can be especially touchy in that sense – as your reaction to this part of Mr. Streiber’s life makes abundantly clear.
Tiny wrote: “I’ve read/listened to POI and many of your other remarks on Mr. Streiber. You have brought up his ‘lying’ about his sex life a few times but I’m not really understanding the importance of this to you and your thesis?”
Jasun is clearly trying to suggest there is a connection to Strieber and The Process Church and some Occult Sexual Acts that connect him to his trauma issues. The Occult links go with him being drugged with loss of memory, time, and location knowledge. The Irish woman is alleged to be mentally disturbed, has a bizarre costume described in two very different ways by Strieber, and she has a dried dead owl in her possession. It’s hard to imagine Strieber is the innocent victim traveling with someone intimately sharing sleeping arrangements too, but doesn’t Strieber write this in such a way as to be victimized by this sexual and occult adventure? The trauma of ritualized sexual abuse?
Based on the way Strieber writes about his childhood memories of trauma and abuse, I find him to be incredibly deceptive about any actual factual events AND how he then connects these to being traumatized by the evil Nazi government experiments. Jasun, has apparently not analyzed Strieber’s memory fragments of these events properly, imo, so most everything is connected to secret MK-ULTRA experiments traumatizing Strieber’s childhood according to Jasun’s POI chapter 3. I will be posting a long comment in that section, because I strongly disagree with Strieber’s clear manipulations and lies, imo, that Jasun is using for his trauma thesis. I will be advising Jasun to rewrite that chapter entirely, because he has been totally deceived by Strieber, imo.
That doesn’t mean Jasun is wrong about trauma causing someone’s comic egg to crack open, or that MKU experiments were designed to split personalities for manipulative and evil purposes. But Jasun is too much of a believer in what Strieber writes as a victim, and he definitely has misused what Strieber wrote by including it as “proofs of trauma” by MKU experiments for his chapter 3. Huge mistake, imo.
You have made your opinion abundantly clear about this matter, HP, so please stop posting it over and over again, HP. Thanks.
I’m still working on my reply to your chapter 3. I have not posted it there yet, but the post above was really to reply to the post by Tiny. My 3rd paragraph “above” does mention my upcoming post to your chapter 3, but it is honestly related to Strieber’s account of his travels in Europe too. Why? He uses very weird and vague memory fragments that may indicate some abuse and trauma or occult or intelligence connections, but it’s impossible to really understand what he is doing [or being done to him] other than to infer he is some kind of probable victim again.
You did point out to me elsewhere that he was probably given a drug, and this is something he infers in one of his childhood memories too. I do want to point out there are these kinds of relationships he is writing about, so I’m really not repeating “copied text” from post to post. It’s really not a spam or duplicate post above in reply to Tiny.
Hi Honey Pot! Thank you for your comments to me. I agree that sometimes the comments are hard to ‘thread up’ here, oftentimes there’s no ‘reply’ option when i want to reply to a particular post. I appreciate your clearing that up!
Yeah – Strieber kind of strikes me as a guy who’ll just say whatever comes into his head at any moment, then forget he said it five minutes later (yes, i know people like this – self admittedly, in fact. One was chief of staff of a hospital and a nationally renowned physician).
I am sincere in asking what these behaviours of Streibers’ signify to JH. Not everything is obvious to everyone, people come from different backgrounds and some of us are just plain socially dense (me for one according to many!). I was thinking most likely your interpretation, but then JH seems to disagree…?
ah well. Happy Friday all!
To Louis: you mentioned you had some recent articles sent to Mysterious Universe, but I could not find anything there. Have these been published yet? If yes, links please. Thanks.
Regarding Frank Herbert’s _Dune_ series of sci-fi novels: I don’t know much about Frank Herbert, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had some insider’s knowledge, because his insights into power-politics seem particularly insightful. I got into the 6-part series when I was 13 or 14 or so (I don’t think I ever finished the last/6th one, and I’m most familiar with the first 4, having read each one of those at least twice, albeit years ago). I remember finding it strange that a sci-fi plot set so far in the future (21,000+ years) would still include things like slavery & aristocracy; this insight into humanity’s social structure makes a lot more sense to me now!
Jasun mentioned the first novel involving involving trauma-induced evolution, which I do detect in the books, but in that first one I think the trauma is less about inducing evolution and more about determining a sort of species distinction made by the oligarchical, elitist Powers That Be: the main character (Paul Atreides) is subjected to a test where he’s made to stick his hand in a box-shaped device that induces a sensation of extreme pain, while the woman administering the test holds a poisoned needle to his neck. If he lacks the mental fortitude necessary to consciously over-ride the pain and instead recoils from it, then he will be deemed a mere animal ruled by blind emotion/instinct, and killed with the poisoned needle. But if he is mentally strong enough to fight the illusion of pain & the urge to withdraw his hand from the box, then he will be deemed a human, and allowed to live & participate in the breeding program he’s been raised to take part in. I often think of this scene now, and wonder how blatantly & literally this sort of attitude exists in modern oligarchs/elitists & secret societies: regarding average, common people to be mere animals, and only considering as “human” those who are ‘high-born’ or can otherwise ‘earn’ the distinction. (One other point: Jasun said Dune involves ‘non-humans’, which is true in a trans-human sense that I’ll touch on below, but the Dune series does not involve any sort of ‘non-human’ species in terms of ‘space aliens’, only humans and modified/mutated/super-humans.)
Here are some other relevant plot-points & themes from the Dune series:
—Mind-expanding/addictive drugs used to augment cognitive abilities;
—A neo-feudal social order, which prohibits the use of computers, and wherein aristocratic families (the Great Houses) rule over entire planets;
—Eugenics; a breeding program aimed at producing a sort of super-human.
—Genetic memory: the Bene Gesserit sisterhood’s Reverend Mothers (sometimes referred to by other characters as ‘witches’; they also run the breeding program) have access to the memories of their female ancestors, thus enjoying the advantages of accumulated & restricted knowledge not possessed by ordinary humans;
—Themes of subconsciously implanted trigger-words & hypnotic suggestions;
—Elitist characters trained in the use of “the Voice”, a speech technique used to manipulate people into automatic obedience, and which could be read as a sort of analogy for Neuro-Linguistic Programming (Dune was published in 1965, and from what I’ve seen, NLP was developed in the mid-’70s);
—ESP/pre-cognition (“prescience”), quite similar to ‘Remote Viewing’ (again, Dune came out in 1965, and from what I’ve seen Remote Viewing programs were first run by guys like Puthoff & Targ in the early 1970s)
—A profession/class of humans known as ‘Mentats’, whom the Great Houses employ as political advisors due to their exceptional cognitive abilities in terms of memory, logic, pattern-recognition, etc. Discussing them in the context of this forum makes me consider the possibility of Mentats as being a sort of analog of autists—from what I remember, though, ‘genius’ or ‘savant’ might be better terms. There’s also a variation of Mentat known as ‘Twisted Mentats’, who lack the admirable, loyal, moral qualities of the normal Mentats, and instead display perverse, immoral/sociopathic, ‘twisted’ characteristics);
—Trans-humanism: the humans who operate & guide the spaceships, Guild Navigators/Steersman, rely on the spice-drug ‘melange’ so heavily that they’ve basically mutated into quasi-aquatic creatures, “humanoid fish”, who stay in tanks of concentrated melange-gas to constantly absorb the drug—somewhat reminiscent of John Lilly’s flotation tanks & work with dolphins, now that I think about it!;
—Long-range social-engineering, not only with the aforementioned elitist breeding program, but also touched on by the by Paul Atreides character and his prescient insights regarding how to direct humanity’s progress, and the trans-human ‘God Emperor’ character of the 4th novel (Paul’s son), who symbiotically merges with one of the planet Dune’s giant sandworm creatures into a human/worm hybrid. This mutation extends his lifespan by thousands of years, allowing him to rule as a tyrant over many generations, while implementing his “Golden Path”, which is his social-engineering project used to teach/train/imprint humanity (through his own intentionally bad example & harsh lessons) to avoid stagnation & decay/destruction.
I took louis up in his offer to read some of the “Alien Hunter” reviews and this is a quote of a guy quoting the book.
“The gun stuff is really weird too. If you get a big ol’ boner reading about guns, you’ll probably dig this book a lot. There’s this one passage where homeboy is all, “The trigger longed to be pulled. The gun was a life changer, an engine of evolution. The gun was holy; it was god in metallic form. The gun was freedom”
That’s hilarious.
: o
that’s some scary stuff you dug up….