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Conversation with M.C. Caplan, on the Horsley connection, family resonance, everybody’s future, saying the unsayable, how the truth sets you free, the plumber’s transmission vs. empty knowledge, the discomfort of confronting people when they lie, avoiding disagreements about movies, repeating our own lies long enough to believe them, the program not to see, not giving lies a free pass, being seen in our inauthenticity, the power of seeing, picking one’s friends, aligning with the power vs. finding one’s true affinities, John de Ruiter and seeing the abuses of power, Christ & antichrist, leaving no stone unturned, Jasun’s manifest destiny madness, Pink Swastika, homosexuality & Nazism, false individuation through violence, going against our own nature as a way to uncouple the mind from the body, constructed identities’ bid for astral immortality, Christians’ relative sanity, the will to power & the pursuit of happiness, sodomy & the Bible, de-pathologizing homosexuality, giving a child a stone in place of a fish, the original good and evil program, a formative experience of ice cream, how secrets keep themselves, maintaining crucial fictions, the veiled threat, a mother’s overpowering identity, Kripal & Strieber and the academic legitimization plan, the Jonestown massacre, MK-ULTRA and the founding of civilizations, a culture of trauma, cultural indoctrination and abuse, checks against encroaching evil, the concept of evil vs. the fact of violence, psychology & social engineering, self-persecutory guilt & the perpetuation of violence, a version of optimism.
Songs: “El Mariachi” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “The Hangman’s Song” by Pine Valley Cosmonauts W Puerto Muerto; “The May Ham” by Spires That in the Sunset Rise.
did you say “individuation chamber” again ? (from the Levenda interview) Love that.
any problems with me donating SANS to my local library when I finish ? It’d look good in the stacks !
It’s your book; you can shred it & serve it as salad if so inspired. But library seems like a better idea. 🙂
heh, tempting. I like to donate strange books and then see if they get checked out.
To Caplan: Great question about Jasun’s [previous] spiritual guru. Did you know he has another one now too? Here is the link that will download Jasun’s story he wrote about both gurus.
https://auticulture.com/go/the-disillusionist/
If the above link does not work, then try this one instead:
https://media.auticulture.com/wp-content/uploads/oshana.pdf
The file name is Oshana.pdf
My Disclaimer: If you want Enlightenment, then go to a Zen Buddhist Monastery and meditate koans and get “the stick” to awaken you to your madness! It’s not any wonder to me that Oshana readily admits not one of his students is Enlightened, but many of his students believe he is Enlightened. Oshana doesn’t even know how [or if] he did it to himself or exactly what that means by definition to translate it into words to anyone else. Of course, Enlightenment is not transmitted by words. He charges by the euro by the minute for consultations[?], and Jasun travels to Finland and attends Oshana’s Enlightenment retreats since 2012.
I sense a lifelong pattern of following to become “the other” to become oneself. A spiritual patterning of “one on one” to the next interesting narrative that fits the moment in someone’s quest.
My learning curve with Oshana was also mapped in the “What is Embodiment?” series at the blog. I haven’t been to Finland since 2013.
You seem to have assigned yourself the role of policing this blog and protecting my readers & listeners from myself, perhaps in unconscious imitation of myself with Strieber ~ except that I don’t go over to unknowncountry.com and heckle Strieber or his readers, because to do so would be futile and only strengthen the view of some of his supporters that I am “stalking” him (as opposed to simply investigating his work).
Those who have been attending to my output for more than a few weeks know that, unlike Strieber, I don’t keep secrets about my tangled process or personal life, but, on the contrary that this output is a sort of haphazard map of it. So your clumsy attempts to point out my patterns and potential pathologies are saying far more about yourself than about me, I think. You seem to have a powerful need for attention, and perhaps since I have been reluctant to give you mine, you now want it from my readers & listeners? I guess that’s OK, but this is a pubic space where something is underway, and your input so far has been very distracting and mostly unproductive. At this point, I no longer trust your motives and I find them to be either almost entirely unconscious, or disingenuous.
So, if you want to pursue this line of questioning and “correcting” any further, I suggest we record a podcast so you can have your say in public & I can address all your concerns in a single conversation. If you are going to try and steer my readers & listeners (and myself), it is only fair that we have more information about you, including a more direct and intimate experience of you. If you’re interested you can email me, and until then I will keep any further comments from you in a moderation queue.
{PS edit: A note of interest: HP, with hir professed preference for the Zen master’s stick, is advocating “enlightenment” by violence.}
yeah. I would listen to that show. shit. even donate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29
that’s a shame, i’ve found HP’s contributions quite entertaining and succinct. Lord knows Jasun you put out writing on a truly epic scale, and pieces like POI are un-indexed; without a photographic memory it’s a trial to keep it all straight. And as you have a laser like focus for whatever you consider to be inconsistencies, it makes friendly conversation difficult.
As a reader of close to a decades I find Honey P’s links to background material quite helpful. Then again, your reaction to her thoughts is about what I would have expected. Is she the only girl that is getting put in the ‘moderated corner’? I’m not a wounded male and don’t want to intrude.
Acc to anndiamond HP is not a girl, tho your confusion is understandable & I may be partially responsible for it.
aaah.
so HP may be a wounded male himself?
Not to be flip, but keeping up with everything on this site I could really use a scorecard!
Not sure I have the words to explain myself here well. I feel a bit out of my depth. But reading the comments from the last post and here from HP has me really scratching my head. I am very female but I suppose what has drawn me at one level to Jasun’s writing is that my experience of the mother as all consuming and suffocating, even dangerous, resonates with what he investigates or questions. I am not put off in the least by what he is articulating. I’m not suggesting either that all mothers are this way but they do exist and their detrimental impact upon their offspring is tremendous.
We are all out of our depths with this subject, MC. But I think the recent talk about ‘wounded males’ both stems from and helps to perpetuate the idea that a) only male children are seriously affected by unnatural/unhealthy mother-attachments; and b) that it’s not really such a big deal if men would only get over it/themselves. The notion that mothers can harm their children without being obviously abusive is one that isn’t talked about or even allowed in our mother-revering culture, and hence when it comes up it tends to get reframed as somehow misogynistic or “unbalanced,” as happened just recently at the blog.
I also think that the affects of psychic enmeshment with narcissistic and/or emotionally needy mothers are diametrically different according to the child’s sex. If a female child remains psychically enmeshed with the mother, the effect will not be one of disempowerment but of (false) empowerment, since to be fully identified with the mother for a female doesn’t entail rejecting her own sexuality. I don’t know but I would guess it is more to the contrary, a matter of using it in a masculine way, as a means to maintain control over one’s body and the other (dominatrix is the cliche, tho such women might just as easily appear demure). Hence the popular description of our culture as patriarchal is I think erroneous: there are no patriarchs in the true sense, only men enmeshed/identified with the mother, and hence incapable of expressing straight masculine energy.
On a personal note: I was largely unaware of the toxic effects of unconscious mothering until I met my wife, who grew up with an extreme narcissist mother, and who has spent decades healing/individuating from that early experience. So the idea that identifying negative maternal influences is a particularly male complaint is nonsense to me. I am starting to see that, while the denial cuts equally across both sexes, it takes quite different forms according to whether it’s expressed by a man or a woman. Hard as it is for men to see their mothers in anything but a golden-hued light, it is likely to be even harder for women who have also become mothers to acknowledge the potential harm that being unconscious does to her own children, which (as I imagine you know) is an inevitable result of recognizing the harm done by their own mother’s unconscious.
Well stated. All of it. Agree on all counts.
i just discovered all the links to your audio for each of your POI chapters at the blog, can’t recall now who mentioned this in one of their comments here, so glad i noticed,
as you know, i happen to be a woman 😉 ah, well, humour me, am only mentioning the obvious to emphasize my point. which is this: i find your conversations very captivating. in particular the audio from ch-5, titled Absent Dads. you know me, the outro song did me in. really.
well, after i pulled myself together, i made to get up and stretch my legs before i shot off what i’d hoped would be a somewhat redemptive comment since my last. i had such a vivid picture in my mind’s eye of you three men that i failed to notice the balled up kleenex scattered about my feet on the floor as i reached for what appeared to be my notes. i say appeared simply because while i recognize the notebook as mine, all my careful thoughts and questions are now one big blue roller ball mess. even the out take one about “the apples” . long and short, between the tears and the laughter what i wanted to say hardly seems necessary, wait, it gets better, i wrenched my back sneezing . . . . so i guess i’ll sleep on the couch as the trek upstairs seems too daunting at this hour. oh god, now all i hear is you three yucking it up about . . . . wait, i think someone is knocking on the door!
call me crazy, just wanted to say thanks since i always end up with such a beautiful image after listening to your conversations , whether friends or guests, i thot i’d return the favour seeing as we’re all unseen as it were.
your sincerity– not to mention that of your guests– is always so compelling.
i’ll be back in the am god willing.
thanks nan; your big blue rollerball anecdote reminds me of whitley’s alleged scattered notes after TMOTK came knocking on his door.
Just remembered Meredith Chivers and “female dissociation” for better or worse.
From 7 mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lxqe28kGI4
“Ground breaking research?”
LOL
Its not a womans job to “get” a man.
It a womans job is to KEEP a man.
No ground breaking research was involved in this conclusion.
What’s this a response to?
Mine is a response to the Youtube clip (a direct quote from the narration
Why?
Because at the end of the day, who ya gonna believe; ground breaking research, or your lyin eyes?
How much money did they spend on this ground breaking research? The global historical limitations placed on female behavior are proof men have been aware of this phenomenon for a minimum of 10,000 years.
Where can I get a grant to conduct a study?
The evidence of dissociation in women being that they aren’t turned on by porn, i.e., the split between psychological & physical arousal?
Isn’t being turned on by a majority of porn at all, psychologically or physically, was a symptom of dissociation?
I seem to be more in the woman-camp, in that it is possible for me to be physically aroused by imagery while being psychologically disgusted by it, or at least strongly ambivalent.
The evidence of dissociation in women being that they aren’t turned on by porn, i.e., the split between psychological & physical arousal? JH
——————————————————————————————————————-
Maybe the definition of “porn” is different for males and females?
For example, maybe a movie where a man SPENDS all his TIME on a woman would be sexually stimulating to a woman?
But Im not a woman so I could be incorrect; in addition I haven’t conducted a study yet.
Should I get my coat?
bad sex 3 blue jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFWXNV07pX4
Yesterday, i stumbled across the fact that Lord Lovelace had a residence called Horsley Towers in East Horsley , Surrey , which is a truly stupendous pile with some very archetypal architecture. His missus , Lady Ada Lovelace was Lord Byrons only legitimate daughter , and from all accounts she was no dummy . William Gibson wrote about her in ” the differance engine “.
All this talk about sea monsters got me thinking about the Hippocampus , our very own sea monster at the base of the brain which is much larger in women and gay men than in straight men. It looks like a sea horse , but also a little like the alien in ridley scotts film. It is concerned with the memory and cognitive map making ability . I also believe the hippocampus is enlarged in autistic people . I wonder if an enlarged hippocampus would give rise to dreams of face sucking monsters , ala , alien ? It is also known as Ammons Horn ( the egyptian god known as ” the hidden one ). Could be Ripley , or the Jungian anima is just the one to rescue one from said monster …
When I put all my eggs in the basket of romantic love & the bottom fell out, leading to my throwing away a fortune and fleeing to dark Africa to seek oblivion, the woman who was that basket had a tattoo on her arm ~ a sea horse.
Jasun, as tragic as your experience was, you do realize you are not alone?
In Western civilization males are raised to think of females as the romantic sex; but its really the exact opposite. When it comes to sex/love, females are very practical, and with good reason.
Many men who share your experience turn into full spectrum haters; they hate the players AND the game. Im glad to see you are not one of em.
I know I am not alone but legion. The annoying part is finding men who will own up to it.
I think you are 100% correct. I have seen in my own husband of 25 years that he is much more romantic than I am.
Romance for me is waking up next to the same person day after day who can still stand to be with me warts and all. Forget roses. Just stick with me even if I snore and steal the sheets.
To Jasun’s point when I have pointed out to my husband that he is much more romantic than I am he has demurred. But he is. 🙂
It was my wife who cured me of romanticism.
Was it a traumatic experience?
Any idea what ” Oldroyd” means ??
Holdroyd , Holy Rood , Old Rod
Yorkshire name i think
I kind of feel like some of nerdier kids who’ve been picked on in middle-school then grew up to admire trans-humanism while founding large tech companies channel subconscious anger that they don’t always know how to release healthily into certain harmful trans-humanist ideals. Sometimes it’s almost as if some demonic force picks up on their pent up rage, or angst, then uses that to lure them into doing harmful things with their talents even though that’s just my wonky shower thought take.
Regarding the conversation @1:02:50 mark regarding hidden controllers/social-engineers/abusers, and how “it’s safe for them to be seen now”:
I couldn’t help but be reminded of that cliched plot point from James Bond movies & the like, where near the story’s climax, when the scheming villain has trapped or disabled the hero, the villainous mastermind just can’t help but relax a bit and let his guard down as he pauses to explain his nefarious plan, to revel in his own brilliance & rub the nearly-vanquished hero’s face in his failure/defeat. Part of the sadistic glee of the villain’s victory seems to be making sure that the full extent of the evil plan is driven home, to enjoy the pain & amazement dawning on the victim’s face…
It also calls to mind the word “Apocalypse”, a lifting of the veil to reveal of hidden knowledge at the end of an age…
Heh. So the social engineers are gloating.