The Liminalist 67: Opening to the Underworld (with Ann Diamond)


First part of a return conversation with Ann Diamond, Jasun’s dream of being Mr. and Mrs. Smith, hot & cold programming, integrating a murderous alter, recognizing compartmentalization, programmed twins, Steven Griggs, Carol Rutz, the dangers of over-literalization, Our Father the Serial Killer, Ann’s memory of military program, Good little Soldiers, releasing programming, sexual alters, exploring pornography, a BDSM master in Holland, sexual conditioning, allowing the possibility of alters, something wild, ready for the rabbit hole, Alice’s dream, opening to the underworld, serial killers & Dostoyevsky, the capacity to kill, the right to kill, a recipe for serial killers, Lucifer complex, killing a cat, Being the One, trauma programming, the front-alter, society & taboo, mirror neurons & pornography, art & human darkness, violence and the sex industry, imprinting the nervous system, Paul Bernardo & Karl Homolka, female violence, Moira Hindley & Ian Brady, Homolka’s periodical media appearances, Homolka’s high school prostitution ring and MKULTRA, shutting down sexuality, polarizing the sexes.

Songs: “El Mariachi” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Ali Walk with Me,” by The Raveonettes; “Come Into the Kitchen” by Nobody’s Bizness

16 thoughts on “The Liminalist 67: Opening to the Underworld (with Ann Diamond)”

  1. Not to provide any boosterism for BDS&M; but with so many people having trust issues, and trust being a foundation for love; there must be some therapeutic aspect to the behavior?

    In modern western culture where most if not all interpersonal relationships are monetary, transactional or material… who can you really trust not to try to harm you?

    For most people its NOT a person, its a dog or cat.

    Ive spent decades growing acres of trust with family and friends only to have it all destroyed in a single act of betrayal or greed….

    Does everything have to have a price on it?

    Maybe the best way to grow trust is to engage in some kind of mutual criminal conspiracy with 1 or more persons?

    ” in this business you gotta have some dirt on you in order to be trusted”

    • @Thwack: I know you’re being ironic but I don’t think trust develops out of a criminal bond. That would be fake trust, alternating with paranoia — more like “mutual deterrence” or the blanketing ‘security’ and ‘safety’ we’re constantly being sold in order to get us to support gun control and acquire more nuclear weapons.

      I have not listened to this podcast — it’s been a busy two weeks week taking care of two old people with little privacy — so I don’t know if it’s embarrassing or not.

      Interpersonal relationships are indeed becoming more materialistic, thanks to media, and various drugs that were designed to keep us imprisoned in our limited minds and bodies. To calm your fears, not all women seek ‘security’ in a relationship, or ask men how much money they make on the first date as some women, allegedly, are prone to do these days, I recommend camping in British Columbia where occasionally you can still see the stars above the pines. I’ve also never engaged in real BDSM but for unknown reasons some of its shamanic imagery captivated me — particularly ‘horses’ as totem animals, going back to pagan times, symbols of transcendence through female energy. I didn’t just want to be one, I knew I already was some equine creature and I noticed what seemed to be BDSM ‘masters’ who also connected to that energy. In my case it never went beyond “poetry”, and doesnt need to as there are whole universes that we can access through our chakras, Another topic for another time.

      Lately, and partly thanks to JH, I’ve been noticing just how much programming has been forced on us through mass media. Being born in a certain year means you will be exposed to programming in songs, pop idols, movies that an older generation will remain oblivious to. Our artifact are now constantly changing, in order to divide and rule us and destroy our sense of time. ‘Study history’ – as my dad told me, and whenever I have time, I do. Unless you move to another country where traditional families and social structures are still in place, you can spend your entire life drenched in programming that effectively isolates the generations and derails communication, preventing most people from even realizing the extent of the mind control culture we all swim in.

      It was wonderful meeting Jasun and his wife and visiting their store where I bought a hand-carved tortoise which I will take with me to my next destination.

      • “To calm your fears, not all women seek ‘security’ in a relationship, or ask men how much money they make on the first date as some women, allegedly, are prone to do these days,” –Ann

        Its not my fear Ann. As a lover of nature, I fully acknowledge its the way the sexual dynamic is supposed to work; and the farther away from it you get, the more difficulties you will have sexually.

        Todays females like to pretend “that Jaws music” is for them.

        Its not.

        It Never has been and never will be.

        Your interest in BDS&M is probably due to the lack of a powerful dominant, masculine man in your life that you can submit to.

        • We all need to be alive above and below. My “interest” in BDSM was years ago and even then it was fuelled by curiosity. It nearly got me killed because it’s linked through criminal networks to a Satanic elite. So I don’t advise anyone to jump into it for fun.

          Dominant men can be boringly obsessed with control. When I wad young I gravirate to the arts, and androgyny. At 52 i found a dominant man in Greece where aechetypes litter the ground, but it happened to be an island that long ago was ruled by Amazons. Most Greek women are more Aprhrodite than Artemis and he complained bitterly about their deceptive ways, which he considered poisonous – whereas at least the Amazons were direct and threw their men off a cliff.

          We all seek balance through polairty. Feelings can be even more complex and subtle than thoughts, as long as they keep don’t congeal into attitudes… excuse the platitudes

          • Your interest in BDS&M is probably due to the lack of a powerful dominant, masculine man in your life that you can submit to.

            I used to believe things of this sort. Then I got married. 😀

          • “We all seek balance through polairty.”

            In todays increasingly sexual monoculture thats becoming difficult for females to achieve:


      • I listened to it & felt like it wasn’t all that interesting. I think that the heavily charged material of that first hour caused Ann & I unconsciously to back away and go into more of a surface, mental space, tho I wasn’t quite conscious of it at the time.

  2. A correction: Sondra London, author of Good Little Soldiers (based on the story of Stephen and Dianne Griggs), mentioned in the interview, has written to tell me Stephen did not see a hypnotherapist or get hypnotized (my error). Rather his horrific memories of witnessing his father murdering a series of people emerged spontaneously.

    Sondra will be publishing Good Little Soldiers on Create Space soon — will send you details when it’s available. Highly readable, deeply disturbing, highly recommended.


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