The Liminalist # 96: Original Shame & The Progression of Trauma (with Jason Butler)

Talking with Jason Butler on marijuana use and checking out, porn addiction, a reverse bucket list, the question of sublimation, the problem of ejaculation, celibacy in marriage, Sex Addicts Anonymous, sex addiction & heroin addiction, shared nose-picking habit, seeking symptoms of trauma, the need for sensation, the effects of cannabis, weed hangovers, uses & effects of alcohol, use, misuse,& abuse, sex as self-medication, sex for procreation, Reich & Freud, the shame-free orgasm, Castaneda on sexual energy & conception, incarnation energy vortexes, a fragment is born, Westworld as transhumanist propaganda, sex & shame, the incest meme in porn, nobody talks about porn, Freud’s seduction theory, Jasun’s predilection for violence against women, original shame, being groom by a magician, nightmarish mothers & indifferent fathers, another ancestral iceberg, reasons for aversion, no union support for child abuse, bringing trauma to light in the right way, seeking closure, the trap of victim-identification, the power of the accuser, mother influence, mapping the scars, the goal of healing, the progression of trauma, libido, life force, & soul, the roots of shame, Seen & Not Seen and the socially engineered identity prison.

Songs:  “The Kommema and his Religion” & “Of the Lakes,” by SunWalker; “Sprocket,” by Andy G. Cohen; “Gypsy Cab” by Pete Lund; “Cloudy Shoes,” by Damien Jurado.

8 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 96: Original Shame & The Progression of Trauma (with Jason Butler)”

  1. Similarly to Jason, I’ve followed Jasun for quite a few years now and what drew me in was his candid, considered, articulate, self-disclosing style of podcasting. I’m not sure if it’s bravery, exhibitionism or recklessness, but I don’t care, it’s sort of compelling and always intesting. The other aspect that keeps me checking in are the similarities. I was deeply into Marvel and DC comics, Clint Eastwood films, got involved in Advaita Vendanta for a long period, have legacy suffering/trauma and have a tendency to be somewhat obsessive and overly sensitive to the point of being avoidant. So I have a sense of connectedness, though I don’t fully understand, apart from the heavy identification, of the purpose to it all.

    In regards to pornography, soon after I was first exposed to it, I knew that it was to be avoided and have managed to do so. It hasn’t been hard as I just sensed it was damaging at a deep level. Luckily at the time I was in recovery for another addiction and so saw it for what it was early and just lumped it in. I went along to a few SAA meetings in London with a friend and was not overly impressed. All those AA offshoots somehow miss the target. There’s a lot to be said for having some sort of daily program to combat addiction though. My my, I feel I’m so off the beam I have not real wise words to offer in that respect. Sorry. All I can say is, though my faith has waxed and waned, without a belief in a power greater than myself and a degree of abandonment to that power, I don’t think I’d be around to be writing this. In my case the 12 step program worked very well, though I’ve neglected it for many a year now.

    • Thanks Joe.

      Happy to hear the 12 step program worked for you. I have a friend who kicked gambling because of it.

      If there were local meetings I might have continued, but a 4 hour round trip plus expenses to London was too much. Plus some of the testimonies were so far more extreme than porn use, it seemed to reinforce my decision to not continue. The same with other things in London I was involved with for a while, too far away.

      There is an online SAA option, which may still be an option, but I’m hoping it won’t come to that. Some of the phrasings within the literature strongly suggest it’s 12 step model is the ONLY way, and that continued support towards other addicts once cured is pretty much a necessity. This seemed a bit one dimensional and dogmatic for me, though well intended. Being overly self critical is an issue for me at times and some of those steps would I think feed heavily into that.

      A faith in a higher power?

      Countless synchronicities continue to evidence such a thing within my own perceptions, “on my own terms” involves this for sure, but without too much adherence to any middle men. I’m wary of cult like set ups having been burnt a few times. Maybe I’m making a mistake by thinking the SAA was a bit this way, I’m not 100%

  2. Great guest, very genuine. To talk about such things openly (past abuse/porn addiction/even nose picking) in such a raw and unfiltered way is something we need more of. Inspiring. I appreciate the candid honesty. Hope he’s back on the podcast in the future.

  3. This kind of conversation, where personal experience of childhood sexual assault is remembered, and then publicly shared, does not happen often enough in the “new media” of the internet age … and if it does happen, it so often gets channeled (especially in “alt-media” circles) into the lanes where wild stories are told of underground bases, or hollow mountains or subway tunnels under pizza shops … all places that we supposedly need to constantly expose in order to get to the root of this whole big MK pedophelia problem and untangle the knot. Oy.

    Thanks for being willing to share your story, Jason. I agree with what Jason said Jasun said, that there’s a right way and a wrong way to publicly share this and I think that you guys handled it pretty well .

  4. Well, I’ve been having my doubts whether this was perhaps a reckless venture to disclose what I did. It’s been an interesting emotional roller-coaster since it aired.

    Thought I was a pretty awful guest, at times riddled with nervousness, unable to listen as closely or answer as articulately as I’d like.

    Thanks to for all the above comments here podcast listeners, they’ve left me feeling a lot chirpier and less regretful or defensive about the whole thing.

    Maybe Jasun will have be back on to discuss how it’s all been going after some time. I’m obviously hoping to be porn free from now on, and this may serve as an additional incentive. We’ll see


  5. 10 out of 10 for bravery mate and you didnt ” do anything “, your uncle did. I am still astounded by your pure courage . Thoughts and prayers such as they are ( to the goddess of chaosophy) heading your way . Jasun nailed it when he pointed out how common pedophilia and incest is in postmodern late capitalism Satanic culture . Chronos , devouring the past and the future , his children , committing Chronocide . (Fukuyamas vaunted ” end of history ) .. guess it extends to families too.
    Fortunately you have managed to restart time again for yourself . Good luck and Goddess bless .
    I’ve been reading Alexander Dugins ” fourth political theory “, it really is quite an amazing analysis of our sick western culture from the outside though i am dubious about his own agenda , to be sure .

  6. Thanks Gilgamesh.

    Not read any of Fukuyama but have seen his “End of History” come under attack over at the archdruid report. Not heard of Dugin before, but if Putin is taking advice from him, I imagine it’s an interesting read at least.


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