The Liminalist # 16: Being Neil Kramer

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Part one of conversation with philosopher for living Neil Kramer, on laying down the terms of engagement, what this podcast is (for), personal development within the underground mainstream, Neil’s audience, the Kramer canvas, the inspiration of action, the life of a consulting philosopher, the death of the publishing industry, Neil’s idea of a successful day, Jasun’s admission, recapping the Aeolus/Stormy Weather/SWEDA trajectory of ego inflation, why Jasun won’t ever be Neil Kramer,  what keeps it real for Neil, an impossibly detached perspective, models for fulfillment and expression, the ultimate source of acknowledgment, ignoring the numbers, owning the hungry fragment, nurturing physical relationships, the endless quest for fame, escaping the closet aristocracy, contributing to the community & the value of direct feedback, Neil’s background in steel & coal, selling an intangible product, the wandering philosopher, Horsley the plumber & Kramer the bird-watcher, Kramer’s centers of excellence, the option to avoid learning through suffering, the principle of gathering together, intentional community building, the question of will, man’s will vs. God’s will, Kramer’s mind/heart/will model, the not-doing of the eternal, the heavenly animal, the body as divine vision, Nietzsche’s blind spot.

Part Two will be up this coming Wednesday.

Neil Kramer’s website.

Songs: “El Mariachi”  by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “O My God My Dick’s On Fire” by Paul Wild“I Specialize” and “Surf Klang,” by French Radio Constellation.

13 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 16: Being Neil Kramer”

  1. Neil’s model of the mind/soul/will was very confusing to say the least. Perhaps you iron it out in part two of the talk.

  2. On the latest C-Realm, KMO mentions that “Neal Kramer” is a pseudonym. I found that mildly interesting. It doesn’t sound like a made up name. He’s an impressive sounding guy though.

    KMO also mentioned that his (KMO’s) father was a Secret Service agent.

  3. That was bloody entertaining. I’ve been listening to both of you ,as available, since 2008. Over that time, Kramer becomes ever more slippery and amorphous. The more modest than thou can possibly imagine schtick is now more smile-provoking than profound. If by will, he means god’s will, he should just say “gods will”. And, so on. OTOH, I believe in Jasun’s struggle. To frame a public persona as a struggle is endlessly useful – thank you.

    • Entertaining is good. I am tempted to ask why & how.

      “To frame a public persona as a struggle” is a good phrase, suggestive but ambiguous.

      In many ways it may be the only, or best, way I know of to avoid falling into the “Teacher” (or public spokesman) trap.

      All any of this represents is my own struggle. Hmm, Mein Kampf. Ooops!

  4. Most interesting talk. I agree with Dane in that Mr. Kramer seems as slippery as they come – i have no doubt he is able to support himself by telling people what they want to hear.

    Jasun, you, on the other hand, seem genuinely honest and humble in this conversation. Fascinating, and yes a bit entertaining in the way of afternoon TV talk shows, to listen with the third eye as Mr. Kramer’s ego blows up like the Hinderburg from a simple, honestly asked question. “Watching” you keep your own ego placid and grounded, in it’s proper place below the heart and soul, under that onslaught was an inspiration.

    Loved hearing from the feline in the outro!! steph

    • Glad someone noted the feline intervention. The voice of the deep, I will say no more.

      I feel ambivalent about this feedback out of sympathy for NK, yet can’t pretend that it isn’t pleasing to my own ear (watch out, ego!).

      • i understand the ambivalence – at the same time, i think NK can take care of himself. I can’t judge him too harshly, either, as i’ve reacted that way myself many times. What i admired in that interaction was that altho there was a perfect opportunity for one ego to jump on another, “Gotcha!” style, that choice was ignored with no hesitation in favor of pursuing some aspect of truth and honesty. It reminded me that i want to choose that path, and that it’s not just a ‘my ego’ choice, it can help create openings for others to strive towards truth and compassion as well.

        If your ego is pleased by someone noticing you acting compassionately and wisely, well then perhaps there’s a way for ego to be your friend along the path.

        • Very sweetly stated thanks.

          The idea of the podcast is to create a liminal space, i.e., one in which honesty is not only possible but necessary. After that, the chips fall where they may.

  5. So is the Anglerfish in the art symbolic of a guru-like-creature who uses its lure of enlightenment as enticing bait to attract and then gobble up naive prey (followers)?

  6. First thank you for your work. It’s funny, sometimes I can hardly listen to you or Neil, I feel like your robbing my thoughts 🙂 I’m glad you and Kramer gave it a go. As for the part of conversation on your places as teachers, I think about this often. As you two were pouring it on, it became clear to me the true role of “philosophers” it is excacy that of a musician; to pluck cords (vocal or other) in a way that boost ones energies. A great piece of music can wake you up, just as a great word smithing. I would say drop all pretense of what you’re particular talents of gab are doing or not. Just as when you get into a musical flow and the music suddenly takes over just let the gab gab you. You could say that your particular talents don’t belong to you, but are there for the universes enjoyment. Waking up? There is NOTHING to wake up to.

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