The Liminalist # 183: From Disorder to Dysphoria, A Soldier’s Perspective (with William Ray)

Conversation with William Ray, on the UK gender recognition act, internet censorship, dead-naming, Jonathan Yaniv, Meghan Murphy, the eradication of public spaces, Twitter community standards, WordPress censorship, who gets targeted, trans-legislation, DSM5, from disorder to dysphoria, SOGI 123, a land of contradictions, under the radar financing, Federal Liberals & human rights, Bill C-16, Gay-Straight Alliance in Alberta, a religious resistance, trans scare tactics, a metaphysical gender-self, the cotton ceiling, engineering a war of the sexes, a perfect storm, Neo-Marxism and conflict studies, Judith Butler & social disruption, Bennington, gender studies, radical left & corporate interests, problem-reaction-solution, the Yellow Vest movement, simple ideas for complex situation, generation outrage, the Fabian Society, Marx & George Bernard Shaw weaponized professors, permeators, identity politics as tool of the deep state, Girardian mechanics and the need for a scapegoat, social media & the boogeyman creation, removing the ideologues from progressive politics, Tommy Douglas, black cats & white cats, overthrowing the 1%, the Occupy movement, evil white men, third wave anti-racism, preference testing, unconscious bias, emerging from ideology, logic and rationality as tools of the oppressors, ideological soldiers, a lack of knowledge in the young, the taint of right-wing, Trump’s election, Obama and the generation of disillusionment, the next American civil war, economic insecurity, a soldier’s perspective.

William’s site: 

Songs:  “Fix You,” by Robyn Hitchcock. “Molten Light” by Chad Van Gaalen. “These Words” by Hazelwood Motel.

Next Liminalist Live Meet: Reclaiming the Life Force: Autonomy, Sexuality, & Non-Toxic Masculinity. Sat 11 am PST:

22 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 183: From Disorder to Dysphoria, A Soldier’s Perspective (with William Ray)”

  1. Firstly, thank you, Jasun. Listening to this interchange wasn’t how I had hoped to spend my morning, but I’m grateful that I summoned the courage to do so.

    Expressing myself is difficult right now. Feeling burdened by a load of grief and anger that is interfering with my cognitive clarity. I’ll do my best.

    Having navigated (and survived) the first few portals out of the mainstream thought cult, I find myself poised at this next threshold, quaking with fear and attempting to manage the overwhelming revulsion that is elicited in my body. I’m not succeeding very well.

    I thought I was ready. I thought I knew this was coming. What I realize is that I secretly harbored the idea that I would be long dead before they could begin to actually implement the structural adjustments necessary to make way for the thick end of the wedge. That I wouldn’t be called upon to integrate this reality into my lived experience. That I would escape. Perhaps reincarnate once the carnage had taken place, and help build a different world. Now that the wedge is firmly embedded in our flesh, how to continue?

    I’m clinging to the memory of how I was able to carry on after previous paradigm shattering revelations, and am at a loss. The sensation of grief is so enormous. How are we to swallow this, resist self-destructing, and carry on? How do YOU do it?

    The moment when you offered William the insight that the Progressive Left was in fact always an instrument of the ruling class felt pregnant with possibility…for one moment I dared to hope that he was on the verge of understanding that his ideology had been created as a weapon, and that his sense of ‘fair play’ and moral / humanitarian compassion had been hijacked by forces that seek only to hamstring and re-direct these energies. I found myself cursing in frustration as the opportunity passed, and just sinking back into the sense that this place is so lonely. So unbearably lonely.

    Yes, I love many people who have differing world views, yes, I am willing to accept that I have a different set of receptor sites than most, and what I see when gazing at the political spectrum is a morass of intentionally misdirected human energy, but I’m exhausted. To hear yet another poor soul say “We have to get the right people into power” just depletes my hope. Borders on unbearable.

    We ARE (I am) so far removed from lucidity at this point that a sense of hopelessness seems the only possible response. If someone as obviously invested in ‘truth’ as William is cannot/will not increase the scope of their understanding to include the realization that their personal narrative has been largely scripted, then…why do I even listen to these conversations? I suppose I’m a sucker for punishment, after all, as the Permeators planned. Just desperate for some freaking hope (as they well understand). Silly me.

    I shut down so fast when I hear the political-solution language. This is a waste of our time. How can we have the next level conversations?

    There never WAS a point at which our ‘revered institutions’ could be reformed…they were engineered specifically to BE engines of indoctrination and control, while masquerading as centers of helpfulness…to even think that reform is possible brings snorts of derisive laughter from my gut.

    “Please, cancer, alter your basic function. We promise to honor and respect you, we know you mean well, thank you for shaping us into the forms that are most palatable to your highness, but we were wondering if maybe you’d refrain from digesting us?”

    I’m forcefully reminded of the recent experience I had while watching the movie “Hereditary”. The family plays out the roles to which they had been assigned by the previous generation, oblivious to the programming, unaware (at least on a conscious level) that the cult had surrounded and directed them from birth. Being played like marks in a brilliant long con that leads to only one end, having both their most destructive and benign impulses anticipated and catered to in service of the goal: conjuring / manifesting demonic dominion.

    Every action leading to the inevitable conclusion: destruction of the family, and fulfillment of the agenda. Watching this film felt as though I was being given the gift of a story that was crafted to reveal our predicament (my predicament) in its full horror, cleverly disguised as entertainment. Similar to the reaction when first viewing the original Matrix lo those many years ago, but this time, there is no hope, there is no possible resistance, there is no Red Pill. Once is but a bacterium grown in a laboratory as a food source for the burgeoning cancer.

    The only way that I’ve made it this far is to stumble into a faith that what we are experiencing, (although it feels urgent), is a simulation – a game in which we are immersed to the point of oblivion. And that once the game ends, we’ll resurface into an awareness of the playful nature of the experience, appreciate the intensity of the sensations it contained, and incorporate the learning that resulted – from a place of NOT being damaged by it all. From a place of peace. Some days, I think this is a perfectly delusional stance, and little better (perhaps less effective, even) than an addiction to heroin, alcohol, etc. (insert numbing agent of choice). Other days, it is literally the only thing that makes taking the next breath possible.

    One thing is clear to me: it isn’t necessary for us to understand or accept the ideology. All that is required is for us to submit. Or not…and if we don’t, the umbilical cords of our livelihoods, our social support networks, our voices will be gleefully and efficiently snipped, by means either covert or overt – whatever is expedient.

    If that results in waves of despair, so much the better. One can only marvel at the cunning multi-tasking that is being performed. I have difficulty imagining a more efficient way to disable the one population that is in a position to actually perceive the enormity of the implications. Those who are attempting to navigate the world through the lens of sexually induced trauma effects are ideally positioned to grok the gestalt, and to succumb to a bout of hysterical horror, laughter and rage that can end only in personal catastrophe and the furthering of the agenda…much like the characters in “Hereditary”. The ultimate Catch-22. To see that you are being used to feed the cancer, and yet seeing no other option, if one is to continue to exist here.

    I personally feel as though I am being exposed to an increasingly potent strain of mind virus that was brilliantly engineered to infiltrate my (our) psyche and establish a death grip on the Central Nervous System. I feel the toxicity in my body, right now. I feel it worming its way through my thoughts, encouraging me to exit the playing field rather than remain to witness the coming wave of hideously ordinary state sanctioned (enforced) pedophilia.

    I’ve pre-ordered the Kindle version of The Vice of Kings. I await the release on January 31st with mingled dread and hope.

    • Heather – thanks for the very thoughtful feedback, probably the longest and bleakest comment I have yet to receive.

      In his event today, Dave Oshana said something like, when we no longer try to have power over others, no one will have power over us.

      I don’t share your pessimism though I certainly understand it and consider it far closer to realistic than most people’s false optimism.

      I think it comes down to the question, what are we really, truly? And what is in jeopardy within this current sociopolitical, psychic, and metaphysical trap we appear to be caught inside.

      Our minds, certainly; our nervous systems also; even our psyches seem to be in peril. Is that all we are? Or is there something deeper?

      Glad you made the YT event. I go more into this question (and mention your comment) in the after-event meet on Zoom.

      • Jasun – thank you.

        After having written from such a place of despair, I am slowly becoming able to digest the truth of what you say. Emotional dis-regulation, and the tendency to blurt out from within a tempest of feeling is one of the most off-putting aspects of being me. You were very kind to allow the comment to be published at all – and I want you to know that the deep loneliness I was experiencing lessened as a result of your compassion for my tempest. It was a very generous thing for you to do.

        I’m glad you linked the Zoom portion of the discussion here. I haven’t yet listened to the whole thing, but to enough of it to feel affirmed: the ability to hold our awareness of the stark brutality of ‘the world’ AND to experience joy simultaneously is as close to sanity as I can perceive. That is my ambition, if you can call it that.

        To be reminded of the inexorable, innocent (as in non-aggressive) power of light to eradicate darkness simply by being, is a heartening signal of a greater context containing all of this apparently horrific experience.

        Is the challenge to be ‘in this world, but not OF it?’ Most days, I think it is. That whatever is happening here within this flesh has meaning, but is only a small part of the totality – whatever the hell that is. That somehow my job is to allow the grief, the sorrow and rage to wash through me while remaining aware that my perceptions are quite hobbled…I do not get to KNOW that God exists, I can only develop faith that what we are somehow engaging in a process that has some kind of meaning that matters. That is good.

        The brief flashes of pure joy. The quiet moments of silent companionship. The way my heart lifts when I witness someone speaking the truth to the best of their ability: these things contain the life force.

        It so often feels (to me) as if we are (I am) trapped on a battlefield, wounded ourselves, yet so aware of the cries of those suffering around us…I feel the urge to rush madly off in all directions, to somehow intervene, to comfort both myself and the others. Folly. Yes. I see that. I get glimpses of the only real way to help anyone: to become more and more able to allow life force to flow through me. That is all I can do to ‘help’. That is all I SHOULD do to help.

        Yes. Anytime I find myself wanting to bully another into somehow changing their perceptions, I am in error. I am attempting to control, and thus making myself controllable. Yes. A fault to which I succumb, over and over.

        Thank you for tirelessly doing the work to help us examine both the situation and our responses to it.

        • the light can’t ever encounter resistance from darkness because wherever it goes, darkness isn’t

          strange isn’t it?

          there are barriers in our own being that shut out the light and gather darkness… like blocks in the body cause distress and dis-ease

          i was glad to read your response and know that airing and sharing brought some resolution, however small; one barrier at a time.

  2. Seeing your Kuntsler column around. As I’ve been saying, when you’re down here in the muck with the rest of us, there are few better. Congrats!

  3. Great podcast.

    I especially enjoyed the part with about 10 minutes left when Mr. William Ray pointed out President Trump’s efforts towards peace. His attempts at de-escalating with Russia (which are continuous undermined, by the way), the progress with North Korea and, most importantly, the recent effort to remove troops from Syria.

    Mr Ray seemed perplexed by President Trump’s actions but what I find more baffling is the complete lack of credit granted to President Trump’s anti-war and peace building efforts by everyone on the so-called left. Instead of continually demonizing the man, we should all be supporting Trump’s efforts to stand up to the massive US military-industrial-complex.

    And although I don’t know if it’ll help anyone to understand Trump or not, I feel that one of the best explanations that I’ve heard is from C A Fitts who described Trump as representing the portion of the Deep State that is willing to sacrifice the “American empire” in order to save the “American country”…as opposed the the Bush/Clinton faction of the Deep State which prefers the opposite approach; namely, sacrificing the “American country” in the effort to save the “American empire.”

    Also, I think that I would tend to agree Mr. Ray in that President Trump is somehow something unexpected to a certain segment of the elite, thus not only their dislike of him but also their near insane efforts destroy him, most notably the spying scandal on his campaign and the ongoing smear effort regarding Russia.

    On second thought, it is not so much that President Trump was unexpected by the elites, it is rather that they never expected him to succeed. He has navigated a real gauntlet and, moreover, hasn’t yielded to the incredible amount of pressure that has been exerted on him. It is quite extraordinary to watch and quite possibly he is the only person in the world who could do it.

    Alors…thanks again for another fine podcast. Keep up the great work 🙂

  4. This is one of those I’ll likely hear through a third or fourth time. Having considered myself ‘left’ for such a long time, it was good hearing someone else coming from the same befuddled fraction of good natured people who don’t yearn for a savior from on high to save the world from Mr. Trump.
    The issues you both spoke at length about are all deeply illustrative of why there is no ‘yellow vest’ situation happening in America. Can anyone imagine the MAGA people and the antifa folks pouring togwther into the streets to protest the should be obvious fact they are both beinf set up and screwed. Usually by the people who claim to be saving them from each other.

  5. Good stuff.

    Yes, I think it does come down to the question what are we really, truly?

    So, what is our original nature — before May ‘68, before the Spanish Revolution, before the Paris Commune?

  6. Apropos of the metaphysical gender self: The Gospel of Thomas [22] “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner as the outer, and the upper as the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male shall not be male, and the female shall not be female: . . . then you will enter [the kingdom].”

  7. I think it points to an existence which would be both/and. Saying 22 appears to be about the creation of a singularity, the recreation and transformation of every level of human existence – gender, appearance, body parts, theological categories etc before one can enter the kingdom. This new person in becoming singular replaces all duplicitous patterns of living with a singular focused one. “The new person, then, presents a totally integrated self no longer regulated by binary distinctions and the hierarchies inherent in them. This new person in fact constitutes a third gender that supersedes previous gender categories while at the same time negating gender…” (Valantasis)

    • ‘The Order of Chaeronea was inspired by and closely tied to the “Uranian” movement, Uranian being a 19th-century term that referred to a “third sex,” originally someone with “a female psyche in a male body” who was sexually attracted to men.’

      The counterfeit has superficial resemblances to the genuine article but at the same time is all about the surface and hence is the shadow or inversion of it.

      Personally I see no reason to literalize or externalize this process, on the contrary, that way madness lies.

  8. I don’t think the Gospel of Thomas can be taken literally and I wouldn’t interpret the saying in the context of the Uranian movement. I mean, you’re not going to change your physical body parts, right? I don’t think there’s even a suggestion of androgyny. More like a spiritual resurrection body. And it’s probably not even gnostic – more likely wisdom literature – and if it is gnostic, it’s one style of gnosticism.

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