The Liminalist 273.5: The Best-Kept Secret of the 20th Century (with Dale Brunsvold)

Second half of conversation with Dale Brunsvold on Rudolph Steiner, belief, evidence, clairvoyance & Ahrimanic promises.

Part One: Fortresses of Thought (0 – 28 mins)

Was Steiner initiated, the master Jesus and Christian Rosenkreuz, the two Jesuses, the Sun of God, every star is a colony, crucial fictions and deranging knowledge, Dave Oshana’s enlightenment, structuring the infinite, humancentric fortresses of thought, the traps of spiritual high concepts, the word belief, the inevitability of belief, the evidence of Steiner, humans at a Waldorf school, Demeter biodynamic agriculture and homeopathic compost, manure in cow horns, best-kept secret.

Part Two: The World of Spiritual Science (28 mins – 1 hr)

Figures of historical influence, re-examining the gods, why isn’t Steiner famous?, degenerating Waldorf schools, beautiful ideas need hard work, the Ahrimanic promise of clairvoyance without work, Steiner’s audiences, enter the brown shirts, Steiner flees, Hitler’s rise, Steiner & Christians, the value of ritual, the decadence of religions, the Movement for Religious Renewal, Spanish project, toxic Theosophy, Blavatsky’s distortions, lack of Steiner influence in the occult field, what we know to be true, the influence of geometry.

Part Three: Don Quixote in the End Times (1 hr – end)

Why J likes Steiner, visceral connections, reading Steiner, the different Dales, the burning of the Goetheana, renovating a crack house, the comprehensiveness of touch, the forces of Ahriman & Lucifer in our soul, the energy of destruction, the end of a power trip, bowing to the will of matter, the goodness of shit work, Steiner’s prediction of an anti-spiritual vaccine, the spirits of darkness of the world, Ahrimanic solutions, advancing disembodiment, the pandemic narrative, the nature of the beast, the Facebook trap, living between thinking and speaking.

Rudolf Steiner Audios

Songs: “Primitive” & “Chasing Time” by Joy Zipper; “Junk Pile” by Holly Golightly, “Sleepwalking.”

15 thoughts on “The Liminalist 273.5: The Best-Kept Secret of the 20th Century (with Dale Brunsvold)”

  1. Steiner always makes me think about this William Blake quote :

    “I assert for myself that I do not behold the outward creation, and that to me it is hindrance and not action. ‘What!’ it will be questioned, ‘when the sun rises, do you not see a round disc of fire, somewhat like a guinea?’ Oh! no! no! I see an innumerable company of the heavenly host, crying, ‘Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty!’ I question not my corporeal eye, any more than I would question a window concerning a sight. I look through it, and not with it.”

    Glad you and Dale got together. The vibe is right.

  2. Capital letters signify where the beat/stress lands…

    Rudy’s seed roots In the ground with Reason and inQuiry
    but Not, therefore, desTined to grow inTo a grove of Wiry ..
    Quantifiable, Verifiable, Rationalistic Piety
    he’s Speaking from a Different take on “Data sets” enTirely ..

    Ahriman has Plans to put some “Thinking” in your Diary ..
    Minded to reMind your mind of “Mind” is mya’s Mirey?
    the Locus of our Focus is all Hocus-pocus; Binary
    our Organ’s of perCeption are in Need of some reFinery ..

    Is this some hypNosis? or hip-Gnosis? or an Irony?
    — the World is made of Stories man, tranQuilo your anXiety ..
    Viscera, not Cin-e-ma is King in jasun’s Friary ..
    Hit me with euRythmy stick, cost Steiner has inSpired me…

    I’ve got a lot of time on my hands!….

  3. Jasun,

    I just realized that you should find Steiner’s tale of the 2 Jesus children to be quite pertinent to Auticulture because both children could be described as autistic with the Matthew-Zarathustra boy being a high-functioning savant due to his past reincarnational history while the other boy, called the Nathan-Jesus as described in the Gospel of Luke, would have been utterly withdrawn/retarded because it had never incarnated before.

    Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote about the 2 boys back in 1998 when I was a Steiner True Believer:

    According to Steiner, the two boys were only separated in age by 6 or 9 months; they grew up near each other, one in Nazareth, and the other in Bethlehem. But there was a clear difference between the two. The Nathan/Luke Jesus had never incarnated before and Steiner tells us that this child would have been looked upon as retarded, perhaps autistic. On the other hand, the Matthew child would have been seen as very precocious since it contained the advanced ego of Zarathustra.

    • But in reading over my article again after 22 years, I think it is quite pertinent to your investigation into the history of organized child sexual abuse. This is my own interpretation of Steiner’s 2 Jesus boys, but it involves the differentiation into male and female genders and the absolute innocence required of the one Jesus boy who grew up to the age of 30 and could then receive the Christ Being descending from God status to incarnate into human flesh and blood.

      So I ask the question: why were two Jesus children necessary? Why couldn’t one Jesus child suffice? I’d like to answer this question with an even more profound question: why are male and female necessary?

      According to Steiner, the differentiation into male and female took place before the Fall in ancient Lemuria. At that time, we existed in tenuous form as male-female, as androgynous beings who reproduced internally, parthenogenetically, without any need for partners. But what we did not possess was individualized thinking and individualized ego consciousness.

      The price we paid for the development of that thinking ability and ego-consciousness was the loss of this androgyny, so that reproduction now required separate male and female bodies. Hence Adam and Eve— and the rest of course is mythology and history!

      • Your question, Tom: Why were two Jesus children necessary? why couldn’t one Jesus child suffice? Ar first glance seems (to my non-anthropsophical left or right brain) to deserve a Bronx cheer aka “Why don’t pigs whistle?” On second glance one could matrialistically say: There are all these contradictions in the Gospels, especially about the Jesus birth and genealogy, that Steiner came along and found a brilliant way to solves them – intellectually,rather than super-sensibly. But then why in Zeus’s name did the early Church allow such contradictions to persist in the very Gospels they selected? They had no compunction about falsifying Paul’s letters (see Elaine Pagels), so why not the Jesus birth story?
        Looks like the Bronx cheer wins.

        • Frank, about 5 years ago, I told a Catholic priest I once knew from my college days that I had become an Anthroposophist and he chuckled and said to me: “Ah, so you believe in the Gnostic heresy now.” I then mentioned the 2 Jesus boys and he said that he had vaguely remembered from seminary that the belief in the 2 Jesus children was actually declared a heresy, so Steiner didn’t just make it up.

          Now both of us know that the immediate preceding incarnation of Rudolf Steiner was Saint Thomas Aquinas, and Rudolf Steiner did his best to redeem much of the nasty Catholic Church karma that even he himself as Aquinas was responsible for, but Steiner left a lot of unfinished Roman Catholic karmic business and dumped it on all his followers.

          For example, Aquinas was notoriously antisemitic and although Steiner did redeem a lot of Aquinas’ antisemitism, he did not finish the job. Witness Steiner’s statement in 1888 that the Jews were a “mistake of history.”

          I also believe that Steiner’s seething visceral hatred for the Jesuits is also a projection of his unredeemed karma as Aquinas on to the Catholic Church.

  4. One of my all-time favorite podcasts, for sure. Dale’s energy was kinetic and palpable; it excited me into positive action.

    I’ve had a similar kinship for Steiner ever since I first read about him. Like you, too, I was never able to write him off like I was almost every other historical spiritual/occult teacher/master. His ideas of biodynamic farming were always really fascinating to me.

    This was very fun, childlike even, but incredibly earnest and warmhearted conversation. An absolute joy to listen to.

  5. The biggest problem with sars-cov-2 vaccine is this idea that you have to do it. It is pure coercion. It is not scientifically supported or politically wise.

    Depending on the disease, the general public only needs somewhere between 20–80% immunity to halt an outbreak. If 80% of the public volunteers, then there is zero need to coerce others.

    Moreover, too many people misunderstand what a vaccine actually does. It is not a cure or a magic bullet solution. It is instead a presumably controlled exposure to a disease in order to prematurely build immunity. In other words, it is a strategy to accelerate the development of herd immunity. Which is rich after a year of lockdowns because the lockdown is a strategy to delay or suppress herd immunity. One way or another the outbreak ends when herd immunity is reached. The only exception would be if the virus managed to kill everybody…and thankfully cars-cov-2 is not nearly that deadly.

    As to some of the specifics of the cars-cov-2 vaccines, it is very important to understand that both the Pfizer/Biontech and the Moderna “vaccines” utilize a new technique called mRNA vaccination. Instead of exposing the body’s immune system to either live or dead strands of the virus itself (think of the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines), the mRNA “vaccine” enters the cell and re-programs the genetic code to produce anti-bodies against the stars-cov-2 virus.

    In theory, the mRNA technology sounds great because they can create it in a lab almost instantly. These vaccines were designed over the course of a single weekend. An incredible breakthrough ! And very lucrative too.

    But the problem is that scientists and pharmaceutical companies have been trying to get mRNA vaccines to work for the past 20 years but have always failed because to many test subjects suffer adverse reactions during the trial phases. In the current environment, Emergency Health Declarations have been made and regulatory hurdles have been removed. The animal test phase? Eliminated because of COVID. Long term trials? Again, eliminated because of COVID ! People subjecting themselves to the Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna mRNA vaccines are guinea pigs in one of the largest drug experiments ever. But how many of them realize this?

    Now by comparison, some of the other vaccines ultilize more traditional medicine. The Russian Sputnik V vaccine and also the ones in development by AstraZeneca and Johnson& Johnson. If forced to vaccinate, I’d likely choose one of these options before trusting the mRNA.

    Personally, I am not anti-vaccine…but I am skeptical of claims by large pharmaceutical companies and corporate media (propaganda) outlets. About a year ago, I cut my foot on a piece of rusty re-bar and realizing that I hadn’t had a shot in 20 years (since school) I went to the doctor that same day for a tetanus booster shot.

    Also, if you want to read a recent story about the perils of vaccines, here is a link to an article about the effort to roll-out a dengue vaccine in the Philippines. Several children died and remarkably the Philippine government is charging 10 health officials in criminal action. If you are begging for a vaccine, be careful what you wish for:

    I dare anyone to read that story from the Philippines and still pledge that they “trust the science”.

    • I think the bigger problem is the insertion of RNA from the material body world. That information pretty much always comes from the lower DNA world and so we trust that voice or that house as ourself. If you inject RNA words/information into the body, it is likely some people will consider it their own internal dialogue/genetic voice. This will probably drive them insane, especially with repeated doses.

  6. I don’t know enough about Steiner and Gurdjieff to differentiate between the quality of their teachings. However, as enticing and appealing as their claims are, and as you point out Jasun, it’s impossible to verify which is what I find off putting. It’s frightening how much of it makes sense, which also rings alarm bells. Dale’s enthusiasm is infectious though and highly appreciated. Had I delved deeper into Rudi and/or Georgy when I was younger I’m sure they would’ve left a indelible impression. Quite happy I missed that boat, I’ve barely managing to disentangle myself from what I’ve been exposed to. The more appealing the spiritual hierarchy the more difficult to get back to basics.

    Really enjoying the series, just can’t stay awake!

  7. What a joy! I’ve listened to about 70 hours of Steiner’s lectures, as read by Dale. In my mind, when he’s reading the lectures, he IS Steiner. It’s been very informative listening to Dale, the man speaking here. Thank you both.

  8. There’s a possibility that even this notion of “germs” is engineered. The past year has firmly implanted in us the fear of external germs and as a consequence a desperate grab for external solutions. Thus the power is out of our hands. Our health is out of our hands. In my preliminary reading it seems that Pasteur might’ve been a fraud and his work pushed out the more accurate work of Antoine Beauchamp (who promoted what is called “terrain theory”) and firmly cemented what is called “germ theory” into out consciousness. Even stepping onto the playing field of vaccines and dancing with the possibility (The “I’m not necessarily anti-vaccine” comments) still validates a false paradigm. Just as I do when I give a tentative opinion on nutrition, I keep my comments to under the banner of “possibility” since I’m using some kind of intuition on this as I’m no biologist, virologist, etc. To Dale, Jasun and whomever reads this comment I would very highly recommend the book “Virus Mania: How the Medical Industry Continually Invents Epidemics, Making Billion Dollar Profits at Our Expense” by Torsten Englebrecht and Claus Kohnlein. There is a free pdf online. It’s an extremely interesting read. It might not save us but hey it might help one at least be less worried, more aware and head out into the sun just a bit more!

    • thanks!

      Wasnt that what got Jeffrey Goines committed in 12 monkeys?

      >There’s a possibility that even this notion of “germs” is engineered.


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