The Liminalist # 54.5: Strange Currency (with David Costanza)


Second part of a conversation with David Costanza of Art of Flying, on death and rock and roll, the space in between, songs as vehicles or doorways, conversations as triggers, being the amateur, finding one’s voice, excavating a song from the soul, David Lynch’s fishing, words as anchors, creativity, going inward, & depression, disidentifying with emotions, Dabrowski & positive integration, becoming spacious, internal life & the death of capitalism, clearing space for the gift, the treasure of the dark, the currency of participation, what drives Jasun to write, providing a counter-balance to the fake, a voice in the wilderness, David’s musical beginnings, discovering harmony, thrift work, how the roots go in, creativity unshackled to finance, the origins of usury, discovering the source of creativity, the return of the soul, being a herald, Gabriel’s trumpet, a new reality in town, creating an identity narrative, shadow memories, The Satanic Verses, the desire to be a whistle-blower, busting open the cover-up, songs as declarations, self-policing while creating, doing what you love, the erotic value of property, the constant pulsing of Shakespeare, to be human is to do this, a unified field theory of creativity, David’s visit to an astrologer, looking for the money, the pitfalls of winning the lottery, understanding money, rich & poor artists, what has value, the ins and outs of existence, Gabriel’s tribe.

Songs: “El Mariachi” & “Monkey Said” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Armadillo, “The Garden Song,” “Fuck You America for Being So Full of Lies,” by Art of Flying

4 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 54.5: Strange Currency (with David Costanza)”

  1. I started listening, then got pulled away to put out a fire; but I heard Jasun mention the word “amateur.” Were you as surprized as I was to find out that word was not always a pejorative? I know I was. I heard about it listening to a “Creationist” describe how many discoveries in paleontology and astronomy,chemistry… were made by guys who liked the subject; i.e, amateurs; there was no money in it, or teaching positions… that came later when the universities noticed there was all this “uncontrolled knowledge” being generated outside of state and religious dogma.

    Today you can get a PHD in rap/hiphop without ever living in the ghetto.

  2. You guys began talking about trumpets and David Costanza said he plays one.

    Well here is my trumpet story.

    When I was 11 my family and I moved to an area where the elementary school had a band program. I was told “next year you WILL play a musical instrument, so choose one.” I immediately chose flute, in part because I was a great whistler, could imitate most birds and for some reason I always liked the instrument; it was the easiest decision I ever had to make. To my surprise, my dad vetoed my decision and told me to pick something else. I was given no explanation and since my dad was like Hitler when it came to decisions, I wasn’t trying to ask for one. Besides, my parents were going to buy me the most expensive item I would everget; far more valuable than a Christmas or birthday present.

    I ended up getting a trumpet and although I was an “alright” player; I can’t help but suspect I would have been a much better flute player because thats what I wanted to play. Decades later I finally realized it was my dad projecting his own insecurities about HIS masculinity that prevented me from playing the flute. He saw the flute as a feminine instrument and I guess he wanted everyone to know he wasn’t raising no faggot. Sure enough, throughout my school band years the flute section was always all girls. So its not just his fault. He had pick up many gender and sexual cues from the dominant culture.

    I think a more secure father would allow his son to choose the flute if that was the instrument that appealed to him. Maybe this is an example how parents transmit their traumas into their children in such a subtle way the children don’t even know they have them?

    My parents were first generation “strivers”; so even though they knew what to do to “look successful” they didn’t pay too much attention to the origins of these cultural practices. My dad didn’t know about flute players like Ian Anderson or black players who could rock the pipe like it owed them money…

    I ran into the same thing with a girlfriend. I got real excited when she mentioned she played flute. I was like. ‘cool! I finally found someone to play some Jethroe Tull with!”

    But she was like. “No, Im not playing any Jethroe Tull. he shows poor technique…”

    I said “huh?”

    she went into this whole thing about how he “over blows”, slurs notes, doesn’t finger correctly… basically that he does everything a flute player is NOT supposed to do.

    My heart sank. I was having hot monkey sex with a flutist who wouldn’t play no Jethroe Tull? I probably could have forced her; but whats the point? If somebody don’t get it, then they just don’t get it.

    So thats my trauma, thats my inter generational wound. Black lives matter except when they wanna play flute. grrrrrr


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