The Liminalist # 105: The Hollywood Threshold (with Holly Grigg-Spall)

Return conversation with Holly Grigg-Spall on liminality or Illuminati?, the Hollywood threshold, where saying yes can lead, the women’s march, reminders of female biology, identity bearings, polarization & ideological grouping, obliged responses to Trump, losing friends over ideology, a 4-yr freak-out, being unmoored by peer pressure, the main thing is to panic, Trump the trigger-monster, the energy of male abuse, targeting the brain stem, a collective state of vulnerability, tuned to mainstream media, swimming against the media current, a performance of outrage, a compulsion to disagree, a barrage of imperatives, silence as oppression, social contagion & mimetic violence, the opportunity of thunder clouds, finding one’s center in the throng, a disagreement complex, self-image vs. connecting, the zombie situation, controlled amnesia & perception management, the lunatic mainstream, the need for deep politics awareness, emotion-theater, the collapsing of the 4th wall, the usefulness of helplessness, reaction-policing, hashtag resistance, the decider, the Alex Jones conspiracy, the blue detectives, the Russian conspiracy theory, a narrative to match the outrage, learned helplessness, Trump’s ticket in, charismatic leaders & the thing that moves masses, a string of leaders, affect & bonding, presidents as parental figures, mourning celebrities, Clint Eastwood as father, John Bowlby & attachment theory, MKULTRA & celebrity abuse, a hidden superculture, interactive movies, empathy-engineering, imprinting, interacting with images, a continuation of an ancient art, method acting & mind control, how media becomes what it is, all-immersive media experience, dissociation and environment, audience created realities, engaging with a presentation, reacting to the reactions, Trump’s vocal patterns, revenge of the MSM.

Holly’s site.

Songs:  “The Kommema and his Religion” by SunWalker; “Unopened letters” by The Left Outsides; “High on Desire,” by Sky Parade.

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  1. Posted March 11, 2017 at 10:30 am | Permalink


    I am so on the same page as Holly regarding the female response to ” Trumpism”-yes, even losing friends over it. I could not vote Hillary ( and know some peers voted her based only on her vagina), did not like Trump either so I wrote in candidate. I did not participate in the women’s march because my take on it was” crowd hysteria” and other malevolent agendas. My recent post with Jasun clearly indicates my feminist position which I adopted early on-it is not about the vagina or the penis. It is about higher ground than that. This country created Trump and now we have him-heaven help us!

  2. Abe
    Posted March 12, 2017 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    @ 1:10:30

    Jasun: … method acting in so many different ways it overlaps with the techniques of mind control.


    When actors play a role, Schwartz has said, they can alter the functioning of their brain-chemistry—it’s been documented in the lab.

    [Leonardo DiCaprio] became so immersed in the role that it took him several months after the movie was over for him to rid himself of the OCD behaviors. His brain had actually started to re-wire itself into someone with OCD, just from “acting” the role.

  3. Abe
    Posted March 12, 2017 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    @ 52:50

    Jasun: Charisma is one of the shamanic capacities, along with weather control, and I forgot, there are four of them …


    [Max Weber] specifically mentioned prophecy, telepathy, and weather control as manifestations of pure charisma.

    The fourth is “miraculous” healing powers!!!

    The royal touch (also known as the king’s touch) was a form of laying on of hands, whereby French and English monarchs touched their subjects, regardless of social classes, with the intent to cure them of various diseases and conditions.

    The royal touch was not the only “miraculous” healing power attributed to European rulers.

    The ritual remained a marginal aspect of kingship until the 17th century, when its appeal grew to unprecedented proportions.

    Louis XIII (r. 1610–1643) and Louis XIV (r. 1643–1715) both actively took part in touching ceremonies. The latter touched 1,600 people on Easter 1680.

    Louis XVI (r. 1774–1792) revived it at his coronation on 11 June 1775 by touching 2,400 people.

    On 29 May 1825, Charles X (r. 1824–1830) touched 121 of his subjects; the royal touch was never again employed.


    Sturdy, David J. (1992). The Royal Touch in England. European Monarchy: Its Evolution and Practice from Roman Antiquity to Modern Times. Franz Steiner Verlag.

  4. samuel corwin
    Posted March 12, 2017 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Excellent conversation. Worth a second listen, there’s a lot to explore.

    There does seem to be anti-anti-Trump hysteria (it’s why I left social media). I’ve decided as well that it’s not even worth discussing politics anymore, practically with anyone. It’s actually a liberating feeling, to feel the weight of my-opinion-matters/ego-inflation complexes lift off. I believe, thanks in part to this podcast, my post-election blues have gone away.

    I have a strange trigger reaction with Trump (and it’s not all that bad). Every time I see or hear him, I laugh out loud, pretty hard. The whole thing is absurd to a level the dadists would have to admire, which then begs the question: Are the elites just avant-fascists all starring in a theatre of the absurd?

    I used to think it would be silly or solipsistic to internalize everything, or to psychologize it, but when you really do the groundwork (as you’ve done, Jasun), the whole charade seems that much more graspable.

    • samuel corwin
      Posted March 12, 2017 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      Edit: anti-Trump hysteria. I almost wanted to go full meta (because it’s nearly there) and put three anti’s (but I won’t).

    • Holly Grigg-Spall
      Posted March 13, 2017 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      Ha! I have the same response, sort of. If I see him (I tend to avoid hearing him) – I just smile and say or think, that’s ridiculous. That’s my knee jerk reaction. It does seem absurd, but also so contrived, that it’s like a joke with a punchline you see coming a long way off.

  5. Joe
    Posted March 14, 2017 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    The liberal Brexit/Trump/’literally Hitler’ hysteria baffled me for a while. The lack of calm reasoning just seems so alien to my understanding of what it means, or meant, to be British. Interestingly I am reading an article by Anonymous Conservative that is most apposite to this worrying phenomenon. He postulates that the Liberal mind differs from the more staid Conservative mind that was prevalent in the British populace post WW2 and lingered on even after the 60s cultural revolution. I think he may be on to something.

    It makes wonder if the cradle to grave indoctrination we’ve been subject to has altered our brains in some bizarre way. Are we postmodern lab rats?

  6. Joe
    Posted March 14, 2017 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Sorry for the messy posts Jasun, I’m saddled with a mobile as my sole means of posting and can hardly see what I’m typing.

    I just wanted to add that I was reminded of the aversion therapy scene in A Clockwork Orange while reading Anonymous Conservatives piece.

  7. Lcy
    Posted March 17, 2017 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Ha ha Joe, enjoying that from Anonymous Conservative….Here´s one from an “out and out fascist”, about Antifa Ireland pushing for the Wilhelm Reichian (“famous Malaysian Psychologist”) early sexualization of children… to prevent them from becoming fascists, or even “alt-lite”.
    Excuse me while I goose-step to the kitchen for another slice of black sesame seed cake.

    • Joe
      Posted March 18, 2017 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      I suspect most people who use the term fascist haven’t the foggiest idea what fascism really is. I had only a vague notion myself until about a year ago, when I decided to breach the indoctrination firewall and jumped into the shallow end of the reactosphere. Fascist these days is a trite smear, along with Nazi and every Putin, Farage or Trump being literally Hitler. It says you’ve transgressed and are now a deplorable and are henceforth banished from flakeville. Sounds good to me.

      I guess my new interest in the Right, which has been so fascinating and intellectually stimulating, pretty much marks me as a heretic, sorry Nazi. But in searching for the antidote to the progressive neoliberal alliance, it’s something that was bound to happen. I’ve been anti establishment since I can remember.

      • Jasun
        Posted March 18, 2017 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

        Yep; even designed that way….?

        • Joe
          Posted March 19, 2017 at 4:47 am | Permalink

          I have thought that a possibility. It does feel as if rifts are being created and/or exploited. On the one hand you get BLM suddenly appearing after the Trayvon Martin cause celebre and you have tenured professors like Ignatiev and Maher calling for white genocide and a general anti-white sentiment in academia and in the media, you have to suspect a play is in operation.

          But even if that’s the case, calling it out doesn’t exempt us from the game. You either take a side or one is allocated for you. I don’t envisage any fence sitting or gradations of participation, especially in the event of resource scarcity in a civil crisis. In the words GW Bush, ‘if you don’t like what we tell you to believe in, we’ll kill ya’.

  8. Joe
    Posted March 25, 2017 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    @ Lcy
    I’m imagining you as Lucy and it’s conjuring up all sorts of images from the brothers Grimm, sorry. Yes, it was the good ol boys from the Right Stuff who fed me that line.

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