The Liminalist # 150: Jordan Peterson & the Shadow of God (with Nick Goudie)

Return conversation with Nick (Kalani) Goudie, on writing about Jordan B. Peterson, Maps of Meaning, a dream of Jordan, John de Ruiter parallels, Bible lectures and 12 Rules for Life, Trojan Horses, saving the world, the new atheists & atheism 2.0, a coherent worldview in the age of postmodernism, a Gnostic patchwork, the Sam Harris-Peterson debates, the 1st principle of truth, moral Darwinism, Harris’ “killing people for holding the wrong beliefs,” the power of charisma, Dawkins on cannibalism, a disdain for Christians, a moral framework in the absence of religion, an impasse on morals, a scientific basis for morality, a sense of God, religion as action not words, pain as meaning, acknowledging the reality of God, surrender as antithesis to Peterson’s bootstrap theory, C. S. Lewis and the great sin, advocating pride, the fundamental part of being fallen, Christian pride as counterfeit of faith, a spiritual superego, Charles Upton on God’s grace, relating to an idea of God, talking about what God is, Catholic theology leading to atheism, divine simplicity, the holes in Christian theology, the personal God, prisoners of infinity, temporal existence in eternity, a state beyond time, endless variations, the many rebellions of men, what God allowed but did not intend, free will & evil, a learning curve, the appearance of determinism, archetypal possession vs, abiding in Christ, storming heaven, the limits of Jungian psychology, the Shadow’s roots in hell, the Shadow of God, Lucifer’s plan, opposing the infinite, Jordan Peterson’s battle with Satan, the trap of defying Satan, becoming a monster to battle monsters, John de Ruiter the Gnostic heresy, identifying with Prometheus to save the world, an oppositional stance, the true vine, learning humility by consenting to circumstances, Kierkegaard and the very absurdity of faith, looking down on the plebes, projecting inadequacies onto an autistic, a narcissistic worldview, talking about whales, involuntary interaction with images of the divine, Jasun’s thrift store interactions, CS Lewis’s The Great Divorce.

Accompanying Essay: Intolerable Ambiguity: Jordan Peterson and the Problem of Prematurely Articulated Order (1 of 2)

Outtakes from the conversation:

Podcast edits: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 21:37 — 13.5MB)

A linkage between subjective and objective reality, escaping the dialectic, a Christian inside creation, essence & energy of God, Logos & God’s articulation, the transmission of scripture, abiding in Christ, the sacred vine, faith vs. works, the parameters of sin, retaining identity within Christ, the resurrection of the body, a multitude of images of God, a human essence.

Songs: “I’m Going Insane,” by Lee Maddeford; “Something About the Name” by Brother Timothy Clark; “Washed Out” by Monkey Warhol; “Jesus Wore Flip-Flops” by Alex Battles the Engelberts.

9 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 150: Jordan Peterson & the Shadow of God (with Nick Goudie)”

  1. I hadn’t heard of Peterson until they put his book next to Milo’s at the library, but I had seen him before, he was a meme : “Sort yourself out”, “Lobsters”, “Clean your room”, and so on. I started, not with the big shiny book, but with the bible series. I confess that I am keen on “far-out, man” bible thoughts, Rudolf Steiner, Joseph Atwill and some others. Like many, I was first struck by Peterson’s command of the stage, the audience and the material he presented. He was no Joseph Campbell mind you, but he knew when to make the Simpsons reference and how. After an hour or two I started to notice this strange, well, thing. I would be with Peterson for nine-out-of-ten sentences and then he would completely miss the landing. To a degree that seemed down-right nefarious. For example, he would finish an inspiring poem or something with, like, “and that’s why Bill Gates is a great role model.” Imagine my shock.. Anyway, “don’t throw-out the baby with the bathwater” and so forth. I finished the bible series, caught a few book-tour lectures and saw a few “best of/worst of” compilations on YouTube. Overall, not bad. As someone who is familiar with the bible, I was quite moved by much of it. On occasion even a bit misty-eyed.. I felt validated in my long-ago choice to walk the Hero’s path for myself, my fellow Earth creatures and God… I knew that I was given a piece of God to carry in the world and at the end I could return it to God, show it to God… all of it..


    He has friends in high places, “prominent socialists in Canada.” He has a friend who was room-mates with Elon Musk. He won’t really touch the “Jews in high places with an axe to grind” thing. He has a painting of Lenin in his house. He advocated for SSRIs on cable TV. Lobsters. He strikes me as one of the many Prisoners of Infinity.

    Anyway, where was I ? Yeah, I would call him a “shabbos goy” or a “ger toshav.” He knows his place.

    Great chat guys. An especially interesting last 20 minutes or so.
    “Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste lobster.”

    • He also occupied Timothy Leary’s old position at Harvard, now appears regularly on Fox News, recently endorsed the official narrative on the Syrian gas attacks, and – though I’m only half serious on this one- there is that infamous illuminati card game that features a card called something like “Secrets Man was Not Supposed To Know” which mirrors the opening quote of Maps of Meaning and features a picture that looks exactly like him IMO. I thought the card might be a hoax but I’m pretty sure I was able to find that it was an original card in the game (not to get too conspiratorial). That said, I’ve followed him and learned a great deal from what he has to say, so who knows?

        • *Paranoid awareness intersects with another’s paranoid awareness to become tangenoid awareness*

          It looks exactly like him, dude…

          The David Icke in me feels excited and validated. The Jasun Horsley in me has one foot in skepticism, the other in Ickeland, liminally speaking. The Jordan Peterson in me dismisses my conspiratorial thinking as the result of projecting my resentment onto society for failing to adequately assume my expected role in the social dominance hierarchy and blaming my lack of success on elite psychopathic social engineers.

          • Ha, funny it didn’t occur to me to ask the me in myself : )

            I am genuinely perplexed by it, I just don’t know. Every possibility I entertain seems equally plausible/implausible. I think probably that Jon de Ruiter astral projected into Whitley Streiber’s hotel room, gave him the blueprints for a time machine, and he hired Doug Lain to travel back in time and add the card to the original deck bc ‘the Visitors’ promised to pay him back with Global Communism.

  2. he denounced joseph campbell as a rehashed interpretation of jung with nothing new to say, and i suspect he’d dismiss rudolf steiner as new age woo.

      • If I may.. on Campbell, on denouncing..

        What made Campbell great, for me, wasn’t that he was on some new frontier of human thought, it was that I could observe a human that loved being alive despite life’s foibles, loved doing what he did. This is the same thing I enjoy about Jasun, about Kramer – anyone sharing their experience really. Is their heart in it ? Their experience and their sharing. And what part of me recognizes, or try’s to, if someone’s heart is in something ?

        Yes, despite the fact that his disciples went on to form the Industrial Light and Magic Complex who went on to brainwash the entire world – The Power of Myth, indeed – I still enjoy a little Campbell.

        Oh and, denouncing. Seems like a lot of work. Peterson doesn’t seem to love doing what he does and I think it shows.


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