The Liminalist # 279: A Sheep Among Wolves (Oshana’s All You Can Eat Enlightenment Pot Lunch, with Luke Dodson & others)

Talking with Luke Dodson, Hugo D, & Simon M on what makes Dave Oshana different, against the dark background of the spiritual market place & dodgy gurus

Part One: Celebrity Guru Cults (0 – 33 mins)

What to make of Dave, from a Mooji background, celebrity guru cults, a face vortex, a change comes, natural living,a sense of freedom, fear of embarrassment, absence of reverance, John de Ruiter, double standards, the element of worship, Dave O in a cultural context, a non-guru thing, what we do with our awareness, being ourselves, a tightrope walk, working with a skeptical writer, not hungry for praise, guilt-tripping gurus, surrogate families that destroy real families, social anxiety to the nth degree, fear of JdR, a video encounter in Bristol, an audience with the king.

Part Two: A Walking Contradiction (33 mins – end)

An illuminated manuscript, recent Dave event, formulas for goodness, bringing your own ingredients to the restaurant, the continuity of a feeling, a relaxed way of being, human community, focus on breathing, the layers of the body, the enlightenment road, from broken to whole, batting off projections, the short-hand of “enlightenment,” a walking contradiction, growing up in the East End, paranoid aware spiritual seekers, finding the gold standard, concepts of enlightenment vs. experience of it, the superhuman fallacy, heightened naturalness, authentic naivete, cynicism & idealism.

Part Two: The Science of Seeking ~ behind the Playwall, password coming soon (by end of today) to an inbox near you (or email & introduce yourself if you haven’t already)

Songs: “Primitive” & “Chasing Time” by Joy Zipper; “Belle of the Ball” by Widow’s Ride.

14 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 279: A Sheep Among Wolves (Oshana’s All You Can Eat Enlightenment Pot Lunch, with Luke Dodson & others)”

  1. Surpassing the supreme standard in show-note summaries. Set to be a seminal classic in spiritual annals. Storming faux heaven’s gates. Leveraging the top off the guru industry. Raw, naked and exposed. How fragile we are. What next from l’enfant terrible lays beyond the playwall, available for the unprecedented bargain of a self-penned introduction email? Vive la vie!

      • I think DaveO might be a white hat hacker, like, reaching through the Zoom meetings to de-hack or un-hack the HEFs of people attending

        just arm-chair theorizing over here since I’m still too afraid to join in

          • Honestly, I’m afraid that it’s a cult, the definition being : a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

            I think the “object” being venerated is enlightenment.

            I worry about the neuro-mechanics of Zoom meetings and how it might make someone more susceptible to being brainwashed.

            I’ve read about the connection between screens, sensory deprivation and cults in that book “Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television” – and while the examples used are more the Reverend Moon-type, I don’t see the difference when it comes to the mechanics of the thing, which is why I referred to DaveO as a white-hat hacker.

            That being said..

            It’s possible that the object being venerated is ones own body/HEF, but that doesn’t remove the screen from the equation and I wonder if just walking in the woods for two hours at a time wouldn’t be a better idea.

          • As I said to Dan Mitchell in the next pod – you’re already in a cult, so fear of a cult may be a projection/deflection that skirts the real issue; as is the tech one, since it’s hardly either/or, one can walk in the woods as well as participate in online events (unless you are saying you don’t spend extended time looking at screens at all, but we know that’s not true since you spend hours gathering clips from Kubrick films and assembling them into YouTube vids).

            there’s no veneration going on here that I am aware of (interesting word tho, same root as venereal? ie, venus?, )at least no more than you have shown for me, MB.

            TL;DR: I’m not buying these reasons; there’s something deeper a-foot (at heart).

            hint: what’s the difference between fear of cult & fear of human community?

          • The difference between community and cult. Why fear community?
            Obviously, cults involve worship and sometimes leads to death/suicide of the “true Believers” who have given up everything to belong to it

            I suppose that community has the potential to become a cult. Perhaps that’s the basis for the fear.

            Looks like a duck. Walks like a duck.

            Just my first impressions.

          • @MikeB

            If there’s anything to be afraid of it’s the mirror neuron thing — but if the thing you’re mirroring is goodness then what’s the problem?

            Another date-point: Those that seem to have benefitted the most from knowing Dave have been to his retreats in Finland.

            I still have issues with the screen-mediation thing myself — there’s no subsitute for a walk in the woods and Zoom meetings are no substitute for face to face interaction…

            Just a few scattered thoughts…

  2. I’m looking forward to next week (and part 2 of this convo). I’m not a fan of the term “enlightenment” either, it’s a term that’s been abused and has caused untold damage – a lot of us could testify in some way or another to that harm and this conversation is part of that testament. Why has “enlightenment” been misconstrued as “personal” enlightenment? The term has lost value in my own life, liberation or “release from” works better for me. I need terminology that points towards humble paths, how did enlightenment get conflated with inflation?
    Dave’s focus on the HEF is perfectly logical IMO, what else is of concern for any realized individual?

    • I heartily agree, tho “logic” perhaps isn’t the primary determinant of that orientation… more like the sound of inevitability….

  3. My experiences of community over the course of my life has been anything but rewarding. In fact, most have been fraught with danger in one form or another.
    Still, I keep working at it as we are meant to live in community.


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