The Liminalist # 65.5: Yesterday’s Convictions (with Jason Wilcox)


Part two of return conversation with Jason Wilcox, on the mystery of charisma, what is psychism, negative empathy, Hitler’s training, MKULTRA and creating false ceremony masters, Hitler’s hypnosis programming, puppeting Hitler, Britain’s rivals, Winston Churchill’s history as crucial fiction, German generational shame, Carl Jung & Allen Dulles dialogues, liminality & inserting new cultural programs, questioning the Holocaust, historical dissociation, the creation of the state of Israel, Zionism in the UK, something about Israelis, geopolitics & psychic fragmentation, a dividing line of belief, 9/11 changing paradigms, belief as defense, Werner von Braun’s prediction, the changing face of the enemy, engineering World War I, alien invasion event, Watchmen & alien psychic invasion, creating a group fiction, The Nine, creating “Phillip,” Strieber-inception, generating the event, changing perceptions of reality, mimesis and belief, audience cults & space brothers, a new world currency, the rationale of social engineering, the dissociative drive, where God is, the loss of belief, the counterculture & New Age movement, providing guiding fictions, believing in a known fiction, consenting to the fiction, believing & not-believing, how the psyche becomes conscious, scientism and religiosity, what is liminality, yesterday’s conviction is tomorrow delusion.

Songs: “El Mariachi” & “Monkey Said” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Sitting on Top of the World” by Nobody’s Bizness; “The Coming Tide” by Dlay/”The Pentabarf” by  Arcane Waves (two tracks spliced together).

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  1. Jason Wilcox
    Posted May 11, 2016 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    I’ve recently come across a film (not a great one, for sure, but of some interest nevertheless!) which links together some of the threads of this conversation: British imperialist power (the traditional controllers of the ruling fiction?), the Thames, the Hellfire Club, etc. The film is called “Spectre” but is not the recent James Bond release but dates from 1977, and was conceived, written and produced by Gene Roddenberry (who, as discussed before, had been contacted by the “Nine” earlier in the 1970s). The title is not explained in the film but we may, I think, assume a reference is being made (as in the Bond film?) to the long-time association between intelligence agencies (the “Spooks”) and the occult (is it a coincidence that at around the 14:00 mark Sebastian boards a plane with the number “700” on it?).
    The antagonist of the film is Asmodeus – – sometimes known as the King of the Nine Hells, also as OS-MODEUS – bringing to my mind the notion of “osmosis” as well as “Oz” (which is “77” in Hebrew); while the main location is Cyon House – a play on words which brings to mind Syon House on the river Thames – – as well as the word “Zion” (when we see the word written, as at 28:00, the letter “N” is written as a “Z” on its side) and which is directly connected to a modern-day Hellfire Club that seems to involve all the important power players – a kind of modern-day Thelema – see (note the references to the Thames, ancient Egypt and Oz!). At one point near the beginning, the protagonist Sebastian says that he was meant to become part of this world but it meant doing vile things, and “I went back on the agreement” – is Roddenberry trying to tell us something here? That he refused to accede to the Nine’s suggestions/demands and play along with their agenda? Incidentally, the proposed series that “Spectre” was meant to be a pilot for, was shelved….
    Full film currently available to watch here:

    • Jasun
      Posted May 11, 2016 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

      Mighty interesting. As always I find your stone-turning to be meticulous and precise and blessedly free of the usual synchomystical over-zeal, JW.

      Not sure why the dearth of comments on this latest podcast; it was one of my favorites.

      • dave
        Posted May 12, 2016 at 5:44 am | Permalink

        The dearth: I wonder the same thing. I struggle with a lot of your other podcasts, but this style is really your forte. Raw, open, honest… maybe too much for some?

  2. nan
    Posted May 12, 2016 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    i am inclined to agree that these conversations are not merely interesting, crucial, and thought provoking, for they are all of these things. sometimes even, i have found them cringeworthy in a self conscious kind of way. which is always a good thing.
    the music for example, was jarring and evocative to say the least. it pretty much sums up our sorry state of psychic affairs. many of us, of my generation, have had thoughts that were a reasonable facsimile of that remix. discordant is the word that comes to mind at present.
    i wonder if we dont quite realize how valuable these conversations are really. the spoken word is so powerful, hence the hard sell in every facet of media is working according to plan, and here we are liminalists all, on the frontier of our own future. i wont pretend to be an occultist, so if this is an asinine observation on my part, so be it, i can live with it. someone once said to me that the most powerful magic is merely knowing your intent, following it, and maintaining somewhat of a sideways stance and watch it unfold from a distance. it certainly seems to be true in our case. all the energy devoted to our half assed efforts to unravel reality is working, somewhat. against us.
    which brings me back to earth and reality, these shared conversations and glimpses of each of the realities that you bring to the table here are not what ‘they’ expected, safe to say they’re not what we expected.
    have to think on this some more but they are valuable because they are so very real, we are real,. very powerful and thank you for it. both of you, all of you.

  3. coz
    Posted May 13, 2016 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    I could listen to you two for hours, you’re a great double header, I’m only a sometime listener, I don’t listen to every podcast.

  4. Kutamun
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    “We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.”- Lovecraft

    Strange coincidence you mention “Gravity”, i was sensing the final two scenes to a friend this week , as i found them strangely moving . The overriding desperation to return to the blue orb from the belly of the infinite vacuum , an overwhelming sense of relief as the primal scene is re-enacted as Dr Ryan Stone , “Rhinestone” crawls ashore like an ancient fish and proceeds to take its first faltering steps . The Rhinestone being the chimaera of space travel and disembodiment vis a vis separation from the planet . Pehaps Clooneys character Kowalski , literally “Smiths Son” , refers to Rhinestones jungian anima , who saves her from being lost in the void. Kowalski , represnting the smith Hephaistos , thrown out of heaven for being ugly and falls back to earth .
    So, with peak oil , depletion , scarcity , the elites would stop us from ostensibly from traversing outer space and escaping their control , which mirrors their attempt to prevent us exploring inner space and escaping their control , given that we cannot physically leave the planet .
    Scarcity , fear and terrror the means of imprisoning the masses inside the constructed identity. ? .

    I have read that Nazi germany was a construct of wounded deposed monarchies and elites, together with the Vatican ,via Jesuits , which seeved several functions.
    Mainly to hurl itself against communist russia in the knowledge that although it would be destroyed, russia would severely damaged in the process. The destruction of nazi germany left a gaping power vacuum in eastern europe which was filled by the u.s anglo-allies . Germany is still occupied by western powers today .
    Going further back , there has been suggestion that communism itself was fostered by the western powers , to create ” an external threat ” , and werent the vatican gleeful when the commies proceeded to round up and kill all the orthodox clergy in their sphere !
    Wheels within whells stretching over centuries . Wicked chimps !

  5. Kutamun
    Posted May 14, 2016 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Hephaistos also was the consort of Aphrodite , who started out life as Ouranos testicles being cast into the oceans ” she of the sea foam “.

  6. Moe
    Posted May 19, 2016 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Just listened to joe and Jan on “CCN unspun 021” they totally stumbled into your territory via a discussion about tone of voice and personal struggle. They’re still pretty excited about “exposing” things though. Also I noted some cross over with the sync book 42 minutes and your delicious concept of sync making the spooks job too easy… t mckenna and 42 minutes covering the same subject.

  7. thwack
    Posted May 22, 2016 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    I have read that Nazi germany was a construct of wounded deposed monarchies and elites, together with the Vatican ,via Jesuits , which seeved several functions. – Kutamun

    Ya know,

    sometimes maybe a Hitler is just a Hitler?

    I hear all kinds of complex theories about Hitler; but ultimately, National Socialism is always the only alternative to International Socialism (Communism )

    Hitler was just a guy. He could have been a lot of things; there is no need to make him weird excuses for him?

  8. Kutamun
    Posted May 24, 2016 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    But i cant escape the nagging feeling that you dont come from nothing and nowhere to command a powerful central European nature without a lot of powerful people helping you . Hell, its even hard to get elected to a small town council without backing !
    That doesnt excuse him of responsibility , though . The movement still thrives today on the strength mass blood sacrifice of those years . I bandied your paradigm ” national socialism vs international socialism ” around an online college campus , is that ok ?
    Maybe i could include ” Thwack” on the reference list

    • thwack
      Posted May 24, 2016 at 6:01 am | Permalink

      “I bandied your paradigm ” national socialism vs international socialism ” around an online college campus , is that ok ?”

      Sure; but if you get caught with that; I don’t know you (lol)

      The reference ain’t mine. Its out there in the “void”; it comes from dealing with pro Nazi racists who don’t want to admit National Socialists are every bit as collectivist as commies; actually, they are worse because they want to control who you can play with.

      The commies want your labor; but the Nazis want your labor AND your penis.


      I still can’t decide which I like more; playing in the snow or playing in the mud?

      oops, sorry, I’ll get my coat.

  9. Kutamun
    Posted May 25, 2016 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Agreed , i’m in the same boat. In the end we are dealing with chimp psychology and i notice elements of fascism socialism communism and all the other isms appearing in the various political movements .in Australia i am watching the green/ communitarian movement with great interest as elements of agenda 21 fascism seem quite prominent throughout , and they are all mostly wealthy middle class people who are obsessed with food and sex .

    • thwack
      Posted May 25, 2016 at 5:28 am | Permalink

      Some say communism is the highest and last stage of capitalism. Think about where we are today?

      At last, workers of the world are united; united in competition with each other to produce and consume materials.

      Are we all in a workers paradise and just don’t know it?

  10. Kutamun
    Posted May 25, 2016 at 3:57 am | Permalink

    Many of the people who get called fascists these days are merely racists or misogynists or both . Like the various ” united fronts ” and the neo confederates in the u.s south .

    • thwack
      Posted May 25, 2016 at 5:34 am | Permalink

      Many of the people who get called racists or misogynists these days are merely people who tell the truth; I know cause Im one of em.

  11. Aaron
    Posted June 12, 2016 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Very thought provoking and challanging podcasts as always Jasun.

    This thought was triggered by a metaphor Jasun used from the podcast and I thought it might be worth sharing. I was just struck by how apt of a metaphor damming a river is for everything Jasun has been exploring recently. The river as the chi, vital energy etc flowing through the body. The damming as a serious trauma ceremonial or not. Once the dam is in place the normal flow of the life essence is effected, slowed, backed up.

    The most damage done to an environment (the psyche) is not during the dams construction but due to the resulting flooding the area area upstream from the block. This destroys, alters, and displaces an area many magnitudes greater than the actual dam itself.

    Following on this, the river undamed has a wild power, a natural balance, a longevity because usually it has found an equilibrium or homeostasis with its surrounding. It flows through the path of least resistance whether for good or ill. However once dammed the flow of energy is essentially stored in the upstream lake, which contains all the potential energy that would have naturally flowed onward from the area. This can be harnessed through installation of a turbine or other harvesting device at the trauma site / dam…

    I cant believe how much there is to unpack in that one concept. Thank you for the trigger.

    So to be proactive in dealing with ones traumas we could dissemble the dam or kick out the unlawful occupant and occupy it consciously ourselves?

    Just some thoughts, thanks for the podcasts.

    – A

  12. Jasun
    Posted June 12, 2016 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    So to be proactive in dealing with ones traumas we could dissemble [sic] the dam or kick out the unlawful occupant and occupy it consciously ourselves?

    Perhaps this is where the metaphor breaks down, at the point you start to formulate forms of action? No literal dam has been built, and the barriers in our psyche are self-erected to prevent us from seeing something, so there is no dam-builder either. Ergo, once we see this we are then drawn to see whatever the dam was erected to prevent us from seeing, and once we see that, the dam is no longer needed, and dissolves of its own accord.

    No disassembling is needed, once the dissembling ceases. Pro-activity is no substitute for “inactivity.”

  13. TheNovaScotian
    Posted June 21, 2016 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    You said your grandfather went to Russia in the 50’s, but what he went there for was unknown.I find it interesting that he was a Quaker, that community has had it’s communist connections within it, although I didn’t get too far into those connections during my past research.

    But I just wanted to mention that during the 50’s a ton of American, Canadian, and British students did go there to learn about Russian communism. Beria, the chief of secret police, would talk to these students about “psychopolitics” and give them pamphlets on the subject to bring back home with them. More than just students went there to learn this though, a pretty wide audience apparently.

    Here’s an actual manual of psychopolitics that was passed around a lot back in the early-mid 1900’s

    I’m probably not telling you anything new, but when you mentioned the time period your grandfather went to Russia and how he was a Quaker, it made me think of that.

    • Jasun
      Posted June 21, 2016 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      Hadn’t heard about this, thanks.

      • TheNovaScotian
        Posted June 22, 2016 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        It’s an interesting read man, enjoy. Not sure if it’ll illuminate anything about your grandfathers activities, but it offers a lot of insights into what the hell happend to society in the 60’s-70’s and definitely onwards, although in a more technological enchanced way today no doubt.

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