The Liminalist # 167.5: The Illusion of Independence (or: Murmuration, with Dave Oshana)

Part two of four-part conversation with Dave Oshana, on the part that doesn’t want to be awoken, fear of responsibility, sacrificing for love, giving up the fake life, a civil war within, what gets your desire, Dave’s fantasy of script-writing, a culture clash, minor early religious influences, connecting to the void within another, the pros of self-consciousness, talking to Dave, a shared hot-pot of interests, introducing the ancestors, passing on care packages, family accents, born in the middle of someone’s story, the illusion of individuality, brain cells declaring independence, murmuration effect, being grown out of the mother’s body, naked Noah’s curse, navigating among the humatons on Oxford Street, recreating the mother’s body through technology, nostalgia for old New York, perfecting the simulation.

Dave’s website.

Songs:  “Slouching Towards Bremen”by Geoff Berner; “Hopeful Hologram,” by Origami Conspiracy;  “Sparkle in the Sun,” by Hazelwood Motel;  “Too Many Snakes,” by Trailer Bride.

4 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 167.5: The Illusion of Independence (or: Murmuration, with Dave Oshana)”

  1. Trauma caused by not doing, not receiving. The internal civil war analogy fits with the “childhood emotional neglect” diagnosis/theory book I’m reading by dr jonice Webb. I’m finding a helpful perspective in it.

  2. I’ve avoided listening to the Oshana podcast and reading the blog posts, even though I regularly follow your work. Somehow, intuitively perhaps, I knew that by giving my full attention, the only way I read and listen, I would learn something that I’ve semi-consciously been brushing under the carpet.

    After listening to the first part, I was somewhat surprised by how my life’s interests, passions and decisions intersect with both of yours respectively. It made me consider that most people, if not all, have a similar starting point, something which drives them in their pursuit.

    However, your introduction to the second part explains why I’ve avoided listening/reading. I laughed out loud, “There’s a certain part of me that doesn’t want to be awakened”, and everything that followed.

    I’ve been a dad for just over five years and of late my attachment to life is possibly stronger than ever. For the first time in my life, money (or lack thereof), stability and the future are at the forefront of my obsession. All in the name of providing. I’m not so sure that I want enlightenment at the moment, at least not before I do right by my daughter. Of course, I don’t even know what that means exactly but I do know that being dedicated to her is fundamental to my life’s work. I’m no longer invested body and soul, I’ve become a dabbler in topics of interest, no longer truthfully pursuing, investigating enlightenment.

    Really appreciate your sincerity and insight on all topics, especially this one. I’ll follow up on ‘Dave’ when ready.

    PS Buddha in Sanskrit means the “awakened one”, as you know. Thought it an interesting tidbit that in Serbian, budan (pronounced buddhan/boodan) means awake, both literally as in a waking state of consciousness and as a metaphore.

    • Hello cedomir, the cords inside me started vibrating upon reading the first paragraph of your comment. We also share this connection to Sanskrit.
      Keep commenting so others like me are encouraged to do so


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