The Liminalist # 168.5: The Heat of the Enlightenment Transmission (with Dave Oshana)

Fourth in four-part conversation with Dave Oshana, on making a prison break, keeping the constructed identity in the dark, a tribe of chimpanzees, the risks & benefits of interaction, the cooperative process, a parallel distributed processing system, corn kernels in a pot, leading into the sauna the heat of enlightenment transmission, managing awakening, the need for caution, a precarious process, going through no man’s land, waling naked, an experience of premature enlightenment, social liberation, when happiness ebbs away, becoming a threat to society, communicating with care, dancing naked nuns, communal nudity, the internalized guardian & social engineering, different kinds of selfishness, selfishness vs. selflessness, an inner ethical engine, the simple, natural state of things, a moldy environment, coming into contact with the enlightenment transmission, interconnectivity, looking for the life force inside people, what passes for beauty, the ugliness beneath cosmetics, faking the human form, getting closer to intimacy, the key to everything, the great dismantling, connecting through fragments, locking onto the life force, Dave’s circle at time of enlightenment, recognizing need, soul-rights, society’s use of the body, survival of the false identity, an incentive not to awaken, modulating detox, the effects of the transmission, Dave’s enlightenment-detox, a body vacuum, when the soul lands, energy work for connecting to existence, an interlocking system, practical advice, a living conductor, meeting with Dave, what Dave is talking about, different linguistic methods, when something happens, a popcorn religion, what words are for, a shared experience of the forest, menu & meal, introducing the Logos, embodying the infinite, awakening conference, after the collective enlightenment.



Dave site.

Songs: “Slouching Towards Bremen” by Geoff Berner; “Blind” & “These Words Are Yours,” by Hazelwood Motel

26 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 168.5: The Heat of the Enlightenment Transmission (with Dave Oshana)”

  1. Dear Jasun,

    After listening to this four part series with Dave, I can fully understand your attraction to him-He is wise, perceptive, grounded and reminds me of the teachings of Alan Watts. Thank you for remaining in this game and sharing your work with the world.


    Susan Frey, PhD.ND

  2. I listened to all four parts, looked up numerous Oshana YouTube videos, and went to his websites, but I’m still not clear on what his insights/beliegs/opinions are, or what could justify him calling himself ‘enlightened.’

    It sounds like his main message is to focus on the reality of our physical bodies and to get comfortable being in tune with ourselves in that way…? I’d like to learn more, if only to understand Jasun’s interest in this guy, but none of the videos or site links seem to really say much. What am I missing?

  3. I don’t know much about Oshana other than what I’ve heard through this website and a few videos, but it was interesting to hear him speak with you. He had a funny way of disagreeing with you or confronting something you said in a way that still seemed open and… I don’t know – hard to put into words. I tend to swing between non-confrontation and total disagreement, so I was kind of fascinated by how he could do that. I think it relates to what you said about feeling as if he doesn’t need anything from you. The whole bit earlier on about how we treat interactions – how we can get a type of pleasure from giving people what they need in a conversation resonated with me.

    It was kind of a funny confrontation between your conversational style and him sort of saying there’s nothing to say – and then talking for four hours. I could listen to several more hours, but maybe that’s me procrastinating enlightenment.

    I was really curious as to what specific types of bodywork Oshana has experience with, and what bodywork he was doing shortly before his enlightenment (I think he said he went so some bodywork thing 3 days prior). I think enlightenment comes from the body, and felt he shortchanged how important that piece is. I don’t see how enlightenment can be something you just instantly have – even in his own case he said he worked to remove blockages in his body for some considerable period (I forget precisely how long he said) before he found what he felt was actual enlightenment.

    • Good to get some thoughtful feedback on this; here’s a curious thing: I enjoyed the conversation with Dave a lot and felt it went great; but on each of the first 3 podcasts I listened back & found myself squirming quite a bit at the lack of flow or ease, the stopping and starting, due to what you are pointing out, Dave’s consistent “blocking.” Because of this, I edited each or those first 3 podcasts to create more flow and to make it a more comfortable experience for listeners. I would have edited part 3 more than I did, except for feedback that reassured me it was flowing better than I thought. The odd thing was that with each episode, this strained quality was especially evident at the start and then the conversation seemed to gradually become more flowing and connected, just as if they had actually been three separate conversations, rather than one long one, cut into 3.

      I was hoping that, somehow, part four would break the pattern, and it did; it was as if all that subtle “wrestling” between Dave & I allowed for a looser, more balanced, and more free-flowing connection by the end.

      If I had to try and guess at what was going o,n I’d say in simple terms, a) Dave isn’t as comfortable with linguistic exploration as I am (he is more of a joker); b) he didn’t want to be complicit with my tendency to go into the mind and so he was making it difficult for me to fall back on my usual modus operandi.

      I agree about your last point; maybe Dave will say more. There are some parallels with the Christian viewpoint: for God to save us, we have to make ourselves available; yet God/Christ can intervene at any time and no amount of self-work or self-will is going to guarantee an intervention. So while there is no causal relation between what we do and the desired result; then again, there is

    • Thanks Isaac for your perceptive comments.

      I was effectively clearing my body of the non-physical stuff that we all have, feel and are weighed down by for two years before Enlightenment on 19th June 2000. Before that, I had spent decades being ineffective because of poor guidance. Most spiritual seekers seem stuck in that place, i.e. abstract, intellectual and not embodied.

      The teachers of the very brief bodywork course had no clue what had happened to me.

  4. Hi Jasun,

    I’m a new listener and am really glad to have found your content through Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio.

    I really like your choices of musical interludes in the midst of such great conversations. Can you please tell me the name of the artist and track that begins around the 53 minute mark in this episode?

    I picked up a copy of Naked on cassette at a thrift store here in Birmingham in the mid 90s and wore it out. I have to agree, The Facts of Life probably is the high point of the album. Thanks again.

  5. 20minutes in and I’m already at the comment section. Importantly for me I found myself in a game and wasn’t so conscientious of the rules everyone plays by. I’ll point to my social enlightenment endeavours as a bit out of tune by a ‘brining down the house’ or like a bulldozer ploughing down the house without acknowledging the stained glass windows worthy of salvage. Not a perfect iteration of the mistakes, but reasonable enough.

    This conversation is sound advice for one beginning to play the game of life. May the board treat us kindly


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