The Liminalist # 172: A Square Circle (with Ken Ammi)

Epic Halloween conversation with Ken Ammi, on being born at a young age, the Argentinian teeth mice, a true & honest skeptic, a world of deception, a battle in the body, discovering Crowley, Robert Anton Wilson, Book of Thoth in Tangier, primed by occult forces, Timothy Leary & Crowley’s legacy, the Rosicrucian cross, social engineering & psychic phenomena, the space opera of Dianetics, a bombed volcano, triggering ancient memories, the cover of Communion & the Grays, Whitley’s narrative, internal incoherence, Castaneda, a one-man Montauk Project, the Face on mars as trigger, the Forrest Gump of reality, Phillip K. Dick’s multidimensional life, the Strieberverse, Whitley’s ghostwriting, weaving worldviews, ways of discerning truth, MKULTRA and puppet aliens, Communion movie, Travis Walton & Fire in the Sky, a mundane explanation for alien abduction, the remaining 10% unknown, how the grays became the main alien archetype, H. G. Wells’ Man of the Year One Million, the Golden Age of Sci-Fi and Comics,  Lam, from future humans to aliens, The Greys, nanotech bodies, 2012 & Reptilians, The Afterlife Revolution, Peter Levenda, UFO Disclosure & Tom deLonge, Simon’s Necronomicon, Lovecraft, the deceptive dead, a Mess of UFOs, defaulting to the Christian viewpoint, a demonic counterfeit, cosmic Stockholm syndrome, let’s talk about trauma, the problem of evil, recognizing the redeemer, a paranormal theory of everything, a discourse in demonology, secretarial demons & psychism, olfactory memories, the book of demons, Moslem Jinn, the trauma of demons, what the Bible is, the Sons of God & strange flesh, a necessary context for trauma, traumagenesis, the opposite of surrender, what makes demons, atheists’ double-bind, Darwin’s complaint, before the Fall, understanding evil via a goathead, can demons repent, anger & Satan, the profiler’s perspective, insanity & Satan, the deep rationality of the insane, the original rebellion, Nephilim misinfo, the power of God, two theological perspectives, the lake of fire, what God cannot do, redeeming the irredeemable, the triune God as relational being, how Hell came about.

Ken Ammi’s site.

Songs: “Slouching Towards Bremen” by Geoff Berner; “What’s Wrong with Me” & “Sleeveless Heart” by Marwood Williams; “Night of the Living Dreams” by Littlefoot; “Morning Sun” & “These Words Are Yours,” by Hazelwood Motel

13 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 172: A Square Circle (with Ken Ammi)

  1. Spooky.

    “Everyone knows what a flatscreen tv looks like nowadays. But what most people don’t realize is that they look seemingly identical to black mirrors used in the occult to summon spirits and demons. Another interesting similarity to note are the sigils used to summon demons and a schematic used to explain electric components.”

    https://imgur.com/a/Jf7tA1n

    “In 2001 a man named Hendricus G.Loos filed for a patent under the title “Nervous System Manipulation by Electromagnetic Fields from Monitors.” In 2003 this patent was granted. Which is around the time the push for all these monitors came about.”

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US6506148B2/en

    Great chat and not hard to follow, Ken. Actually, it had a very unnerving symmetry.

  2. The underlying subject of this podcast seems to me to be the limits of the mind’s ability to ‘make sense’, which is to say, the ability to conform our experience to our understanding.

    Ken Ammi turns to the the Bible to tie together the incomprehensible fringes, but what did the authors of the Bible turn to? Was their attempt to ‘make sense’ more valid than what we might attempt now? Is not the domain of angels and demons precisely the region outside what the empirical mind can illuminate, the domain changing its shape over time according to the region?

    Isn’t one of the lessons of the enlightenment transmission that the capacity to make knowledge of life, to make sense of it, is not the truth of life?

    • Martin ,
      Indeed, epistemology can be quite tricky. I suppose that I will note that when, as per your example, I have no access to a domain/region since it is “outside what the empirical mind can illuminate,” etc. (and I am momentarily granting that the mind is empirically capable) then I would turn to someone who has such access in fact, to the one who created that domain/region in the first place. It is to that one true God to whom the authors of the Bible turned.

      As for the wasp, I will note that employing elegant sarcasm Scott F. Gilbert (Swarthmore College Professor of Biology, he teaches developmental genetics, embryology, and the history and critiques of biology) noted:

      “…in addition to their usefulness in provoking disquieting notions concerning natural order and the nature of ‘individuality,’ parasitic wasps may have important economic consequences. Macrocentrus grandii is a polyembryonic wasp that parasitizes the European corn borer. The ability of an insect to form from a holoblastically cleaving embryo should also encourage us to appreciate some of the plasticity of nature and discourage us from making sweeping generalizations about an entire subphylum of organisms.”

      Now, I turn to worldview (as I did in the discussion) since the wasp bothered Darwin only within a biblical worldview, but on an Atheist worldview (by any other name) indeed, “it is only going about its business!” and we have no premise upon which to voice condemnation of its business.

      I will note that any cogent worldview must account for (at least) two basic things: good and evil/right and wrong—and I mean actual good and evil/right and wrong and not just my subjective opinion de jour about what is good and evil/right and wrong.

      Thus, my speculations about the wasp devolving falls into this by providing an explanation as to why the wasp is as it is. Someone like Darwin could condemn it and Gilbert can only provide a pragmatic loophole. Yet, Darwin condemned it (even if only instinctually) and Gilbert loopholes it based on the fact that he sought a counterargument. A counterargument against what? Against the recognition that there is something amiss even if good can come of it.

  3. I think it is; but don’t forget that this doesn’t mean the attempt to make knowledge of life, to make sense of it, can’t be a means to experience the truth of life, just as plumbing or carpentry or gardening or sex can be. Whatever moves and opens us to the flow of life.

    • Yes I agree, but the common feature of each of the examples you list is that they are grounded in practical, measurable reality. Speculating that a parasitic wasp ‘devolved’ from God’s plan does not have that quality, at least to my ears. Poor old wasp, it is only going about its business!

  4. Maybe, but it was part of two human consciousnesses navigating the space between them, which is the very essence how how we navigate (and get grounded in) practical, measurable reality. I enjoyed it anyway.

  5. My wife and I enjoyed it. She was unfamiliar with Strieber, Crowley etc, but found the conversation quite followable.

    It is interesting on a practical level, as she encounters, in her writers group, ufo and other themes Jasun and Ken brought up, though of a slightly removed and derivative type. The articulation in this discussion of the context around those potent culture-weavers was relatable to her experience coming into contact with these ideas presented by her authoring peers.

    She’s had the biblical interpretive lens most of her life, and I only as a non-cynic-skeptic more recently. Though, we both consider the Bible as more than a man-made lens. In any case, I found this to be a grounded talk that straddled some lines to keep us questioning those shady alcoves over *there.*

  6. Spooooky podcast! I listened by candlelight on Halloween.

    Travis Walton said he was shocked when he saw the abduction scene in Fire in the Sky, and that the script he was shown read more accurate to his version. The sequence seems very derivative of the popular Alien series with all the space womb messy organic material—would be a good illustration of the “birth memory hypothesis” if it had ended in a more sterile environment.

    Anyway, he claims nearly every tv/movie portrayal omits the human figures he encountered. He also said that element could be the key to the whole mystery.

    • Well, from what I can recall: in the movie Walton was found naked so, perhaps there is that birth memory element. I also have it on good authority that, in essence, that is why the Terminator is naked when it travels back in time. Indeed, the (occam’s razor) human figures element is ignored.

  7. Loved this episode, very intresting guest. Jasun, your remark about his tall, thin morphology being tied to the grey archetype made me think about something that is was mentioned in the neoteny.org book, about this morphology being tied to autistic individuals –it also is the morphology of Don Quixote de la Mancha, which I happen to think exhibits many autistic traits. There was this article in Vice about Brian Butler summoning Lam and having contact with an «a very cold, mechanical kind of computer-like intelligence». Althought the notion it is still disputed, I think Silicon Valleys as a hub for autistic tendencies is not too far out. Sum it all up and you end with the Sheldon Cooper archetype in pop culture, who by the way appears in many episodes with a PC laptop with a grey alien stick on it.

    @Gib, the notion of the xenomorph head as a womb it’s something I’ve entertained for long time. I think it is not a coincidence that Giger had a traumatic delivery –with forceps. Grof has an article on this.

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