The Liminalist # 18: The Limits of Reason (with Doug Lain)


Discussing with long-time sparring ally Doug Lain the CIA’s co-opting the modern art movement, flooding the cultural field as a means to drown out independent artists, poisoning the well, creating the criteria for aesthetic judgment, breaking with representational forms of art, Budd Hopkins-as-modern-artist, CIA’s funding of the far left, movies & the CIA, what it means to think critically, background corruption, uncovering childhood trauma compared to mapping covert intelligence interference, our own internal co-opted media, the secret agenda of magicians, the denial of death and culture as a displacement activity, the other side of nihilism, the Neo-Thulean movement, canary in the coal mine and awareness of death, Nazi occultism, the “other” of the psychopathic elite, weaponizing ideas, self-reproducing ideologies, innate insecurity, the death of God (again), the coexistence of cynicism with ideology, David Letterman and the TV agenda, Doug’s wedding vows, the problem in us, does the truth matter, what we are being kept from understanding, the matrix world, gilding the cage, relative realism, P.K. Dick and what’s left when you stop believing, the electric ant, blaming the conspiracy elite, the psychological mechanism of conspiracy theory, the ever-replicating Rockefellers, no natural game of chess, identifying the Illumineers, the desire for change, systemic sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, the parts of the system that we can’t see, Nazionism, separating society from the Universe, why wild animals don;t get depressed, what can we say about the universe, sensory knowing, the limits of reason, being at home in the body, the body as a sensory apparatus, a word from Mom about death.

Songs: “El Mariachi” and “Monkey Said” by The Freak Fandango Orchestra; “Belka and Strelka–The Spase Dogs” by The Vivisectors; “Expanding Neutral Connection” by Vegaenduro.

11 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 18: The Limits of Reason (with Doug Lain)”

  1. PKD was closest….

    The ancients were fond of pointing out the fact of one putting on one’s shoes as proof of reality, of the fundamentally actual truth, and, much as humans feel a disconnection from it, it really is never not staring us in the face.

  2. hi Jasun! i listened to this podcast before Mr. Proud’s second one, and my question occurred to me before i listened to the second Proud pod. I don’t quite know if i can ask this without seeming snotty, but i do ask it in all good faith. I just wonder if you don’t get a little bored thinking everything comes down to unconscious desires to do violence due to unresolved trauma?

    As soon as Mr. Lain brought up the canary, i knew exactly where the conversation was going and what your position would be. For all i know it’s the gospel truth but still – it just seems a bit rote to me after all these years. Also i don’t see how one could disprove unconscious motivations, so while i absolutely agree that they exist and drive actions – when it comes to other people, especially those one doesn’t know personally, theorizing about those unconscious drives seems to be little more than a parlour game.

    If it;s a game you find fascinating and compelling then by all means go at it! And there’s an excellent chance i’m missing something vital here so i would be very curious in hearing what you have to say about this.

    • I don’t think I can add anything to help you understand that wouldn’t sound dismissive.

      The only point you have made above for me to answer is why would i posit something I can’t prove? But I’m not interested in proving anything to anyone.

  3. oh, and i am not requiring you to ‘prove’ anything to me or anyone. Just as a long time listener and fellow human bean i am interested in learning more about your own experience around these ideas which you talk about. Hope that makes some sense.

  4. Interesting and enjoyable podcast, as usual. Always intellectually stirring.

    I agree with your position that the body and the “inner existential state” are interlocked. This has become more clear to me as I get older. Expressions of a multi-dimensional object, perceivable only as disparate pieces. Like slices of a sphere as it passes through a 2D surface.

    Nihilism is positive, but was turned negative by the architects of culture, who crystallized the meanings of universally-familiar but poorly-understood words. Words such as “life”, “death”, and “god”.

    No arguments or points to be made, just aimless expression. I appreciate you tolerating my ceaseless digression.


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