The Liminalist # 219: Fake Blueprints for Revolution (The Shadow Ideology of the Elite, with Recluse)

Return conversation with Recluse of VISUP about extreme right-wing shadow politics on east & west coasts, the hidden ideological template peaking through UFO narratives, occultism, & supposed liberal-progressive values, & the many lies of Peter Levenda & Aleister Crowley.

Part One: Spooky Social Network (0 – 31 mins)

Suspicions about Peter Levenda, disagreements over alien abductions and Crowley, Association of Former Intelligence Officers, To the Stars Academy, David Atley Phillips or Maurice Bishop, the coup d’état in Chile, Operation Condor, Richard Dody, John Alexander & non-lethal weapons, Stillwell & JSOC, Michael Aquino, the Typhonian tradition, demonic space gods, Chris Knowles on Cracker, intelligence social network, plausible deniability, Levenda’s early years, Knights of Malta & the Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Charles Willoughby’s G2 & the OSS, Philip Corso & Gladio, The Secret Life of Plants, Stanley & David Ferrie & child abuse, Christian Identity Theology domestic terrorism network.

Part Two: The Evolutionary Drive of Madness (31 mins – end)

Levenda’s game, the rehabilitation of the CIA, a religious end game, Jacques Vallee, Kenneth Grant cosmology, In the Mouth of Madness, Pasulka’s American Cosmic, the transformation of society, Strieber, Castaneda, transhumanism, disembodiment, Jeffrey Epstein & the scientific community, the coming of the Beetles, Nick Land, accelerationism, Puharich & Spectre, genetic tampering, the ideology of sexual abuse, the evolutionary drive of madness, Manson the outsider, dreams of the zombie apocalypse, the pluses of cannibalism, The Necronomicon & The Satanic Bible, Sinister Forces, Levenda’s orientation, MKULTRA & the American Security Council, the right & wrong way of approaching knowledge.

Second Segment: The Crowley Lie

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:15:42 — 58.5MB)

Part Three: Spy Games (0 – 20 mins)

Sinister Forces, the metaphysical & the parapolitical, synchromysticism, the tools of occultism, the perils of Necronomicon, Levenda’s changing position with occultism, propaganda & truth, what the books deliver, the Tom de Longe project, anticipating a Hilary presidency, Annie Jacobson’s Area 51, the UFO red herring, abolishing the line between reality & fantasy, spy games, Russian fake news about psi, targeting the American public.

Part Four: We Need to Talk About Crowley (20 mins – 48 mins)

Let’s talk about Crowley, Cecil family & royal intelligence, hidden power positions, the Society for Psychical Research, the Round Table, Crowley’s high-level endorsement, General Fuller, UK Nazi groups, Scottish League for European Freedom, Neal Billy MacLean, World Anti-Communist League’s occult groups  & Yakuza ties, the Moonies & drug money, the Iron Guard & Julius Evola, Las Tecos, strange ideologies, The Star in the West, the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations, Crowley researchers ignoring of Fuller & far-right allegiances, Crowley as a fascist progressive pioneer of liberal values, the enigma of Crowley’s promotion.

Part Five: The Hollywood Connection (48 mins – end)

Rebranding Crowley, the Hollywood connection, Crowley’s dark side, the Moonies & Christian fundamentalism, Stranger in a Strange Land, Heinlein & Hubbard, Charles Manson, drugs, and pedophilia, the Family as a prototype for militia group, ground zero for Christian Identity Theology, Manson’s parole officer, Haight-Ashbury Medical Clinic, Son of Sam, Roy Kohn, New York sex parties, Mindhunter, behavioral science BS, high-level propaganda, reasserting the fiction, Fight Club & solider of the apocalypse archetype, fake blueprints for revolution.

Recluse’s Blog

Songs: “Pirates” & “Wastelands” by Entertainment for the Braindead; “Lily O” by Rabbit Island; “At Least We Have Each Other” by Southeast Engine; “The Love God” by Martini Bomb; “Change” by Short Hand.

40 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 219: Fake Blueprints for Revolution (The Shadow Ideology of the Elite, with Recluse)”

    • Great stuff. Happy to see you and Recluse building together. The prime minister of the UK and member of the Cecil family writing Crowley’s recommendation letter to Cambridge is quite a revelation.

      Has anyone debunked Fincher’s Zodiac? Wanted to educate myself on it.

      Reply
  1. Wow. Ever since Levenda put his name to TTSA I’ve been waiting for some clarity on who the hell he really is. Thanks.

    Reply
  2. Jasun, it is always good to hear from Mr. Recluse, and some of his best podcast appearances are to be found on yours. So thank you for having him back on, and for giving him a nice long leash.
    Recluse is doing some exceptionally good work digging under the “received wisdom” of the American Conspiracy Infotainment Complex which has ensnared so many of us. Being a “recovering conspiritard” myself, I have found it is a long way up once you’ve fallen into the trap. Books and actual research are the rungs upon which one can climb out; breathless youtube videos not so much, and Recluse is to be commended for sticking to the former. His comment about his voluminous library, and the way he weaves long block quotes from the latter into his blog posts, are proof that he is doing the hard work of asking questions and running down the answers, even when they are at times extremely complicated and obscured. As for the content, well…having followed conspiracy literature including podcasts and blogs and such over the years, one can almost always find them ready to talk about:
    The Bilderbergers but not Le Cercle.
    The Illuminati but not the Knights of Malta (esp the Shickshinny type).
    The Council on Foreign Relations but not the Council for National Policy
    The Israel lobby but never the old China lobby, and…
    The Moonies almost never at all.
    And: it is exceptionally rare in the conspiritainment sphere to find any real examination of the degree to which modern conspirinoia is just one long riff off the Protocols of Zion, not to mention the implications of the same.

    The reasons for this as near as I can tell are simply these: 1) mainstream American conspiracy culture is fundamentally a branch of conservative politics, 2) the field has largely been cleared of dissenting views leaving a fairly open playing field for the right in terms of media domination, and 3) this is why some boogeymen get a lot of ink and others not so much if at all.

    The mention of the Moonies is a case in point. Recluse’s digression into this topic, brief though it was, makes this episode a rare exception in that portion of the current media landscape provided by those allegedly concerned with things like hidden history and conspiracies and such. The impact of the Unification Church on American conservative politics, evangelical Christianity, and just American life in general has been much, much more significant than most people realize. If you’ve ever bought ginseng at a store, or for that matter gone to a sushi restaurant, there is at least a decent chance the Moonies got their cut from your purchase. The “cult deprogramming” cottage industry that grew up in the 70s was largely a response to parents losing their children to the UC which was widely considered a dangerous brainwashing cult. To be fair, the “deprogrammers” were not without controversy themselves, and cast a wider net than just the UC, but still. Search for podcasts dealing with the Moonies and one typically finds survivor stories. Search for FOIA-declassified docs from the FBI as recently as this decade, or check out the new documentary “Blessed Child” and…the stories are legion.

    At the same time during the 70s, the UC was ingratiating itself with American conservatives and religious types. One can find pamphlets from Moon’s Freedom Leadership Foundation instructing the reader on how to form “cells” of up to 12 people in order to change society in a semi-clandestine way; one finds the likes of a young Ed Fuelner and other Heritage Foundation stalwarts penning op eds for Moon papers; Michael Warder, now head of the Claremont Institute, also got up with the Moonies in the 70s. The vanguard of the “conservative revolution” in the US which blossomed under Reagan and bore its awful fruit under the Bush I and II regimes sprouted in gardens lit by the light of the Moon.
    By the 80s, one saw Moon begin to seriously get his hooks into an all-too-willing Moral Majority, funding the fundies who one by one would fall on hard times and find themselves in need of the True Father’s largesse. To take just one of many examples: Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University might not be here today had Moon & co not bailed them out in the 90s. He also started Reagan’s favorite newspaper, the Washington Times, which in the 80s marched in lock-step with the CIA’s “Project Truth” disinfo program as chronicled by the late Robert Parry in his book Lost History.
    Moon’s church played a part in the Bolivian “cocaine coup” in 1980, whereupon his chief lt. Bo Hi Pak declared he had “erected a throne” for Moon in “the world’s highest city.” His church was earlier bankrolled esp in Japan by Yoshio Kodama, who ran was at the time the world’s largest heroin cartel in Manchuria for the Japanese in WW2…and self-proclaimed “world’s wealthiest fascist” Ryoichi Sasakawa.
    Meanwhile, when one looks at what Moon preached one finds a profound “inversion” of traditional Christian teachings and doctrines soaring to a degree of blasphemy bordering on comical. Beyond his arrogating to himself the title of “messiah,” of the “second advent” no less, the example which comes readily to mind is that Moon came to Earth as a “second Adam,” here to finish the mission Jesus Christ tried–and failed–to complete. He took bizarre poetic license with geopolitical notions (like: Japan is concave, like a cup or rather, a vulva, while Korea protrudes like a dick from the Asian mainland; therefore Korea ought to be, uh, “on top”). He also was not at all shy in voicing a roundly disdainful attitude towards the American political system and democracy generally. And of course, like most gurus and messiah types, he took on a peculiar preoccupation with the regulation of the erotic faculty amongst his followers. Moon on homosexuality: “cut it off, barbeque it, throw it in a shoe box and send it to me.” Or consider the “indemnity stick,” a dubious marital aid used to beat the devil out of newly-minted Moonie-weds. Here’s a quote:
    “In order to raise up the Israelite people, an angel came and struck Jacob’s hip bone and then blessed him. Whenever the Israelites made an important pledge, they did it with their hands on their hip bone…All men and women in human history have misused the hip bone, and thus man has resentment against woman and woman against man. Without dissolving this resentment, you cannot stand as an original couple free of this resentment. Since this resentment came about through woman, the man hits the woman first. The three strikes represent three stages and three ages.”
    If one wishes to find out what this KCIA/CIA experiment was really about, you’re in luck. “The Awareness,” yet another in the long line of discarnate ET entities from across the galaxy which reached out to Earthlings in the 20th century for the purpose of…splitting hairs about how many Jews Hitler actually slaughtered took time out of its intergalactic schedule to hold forth on Moon in 1976. The Awareness explained the purpose of the UC to a querent who was concerned that “the money changers” had brainwashed some of their companions. The ET entity gave away the game quite succinctly:
    “This Awareness indicates the Reverend Moon is being used as a tool by the CIA…This Awareness indicates the original Reverend Moon as now deceased…and this entity as one who who took on the name for the purposes of bringing about a religious following—a religious order to South Korea, working closely there with the government and the CIA in order to assist in stabilizing the nation through certain religious organizations…This Awareness indicates the work of the CIA in connection with the entity who refers to himself as “Reverend Moon” as that which was successful in South Korea in bringing about the desired stability, and then the experiment was moved into the United States.”
    Source: http://historiadiscordia.com/fred-crisman-and-the-servants-of-awareness/
    Source on The Awareness and the de rigeur holocaust hair-splitting so very, very common to Our Space Brothers: https://jonstrongbow.com/cac/index.php Just type “jews” in the search line and have fun exploring the Cosmic Mysteries of the New Age. Just took about 30 seconds to find out “the actual number of Jews exterminated by the Nazis was closer to 1 and one half million.” It. Never. Fails.

    Anyway: where I come from there are two working definitions of the “deep state,” both of which are accurate in their own way. One (the shallow end) refers to the entrenched, durable US federal bureaucracy which endures and constrains the govt regardless of who gets elected. The deep end of the pool here, more in line with Peter Dale Scott or Ola Tunander (or, why not, Carl Schmitt), refers to a force which acts as a check on democracy and the will of the people in a democracy—think Gladio. The “stabilizing the nation” project referred to above would IMO fall under the latter definition. This assertion is backed up by over 50 years of history in Japan, Korea and elsewhere, and certainly the last 45 plus years in the US. The Awareness agrees—and it would appear, approves. Beyond the horrifying stories of kids forced to sell flowers for 15 hours a day which are the bread and butter of Moonie survivor stories, there is the bigger picture: the Unification Church was not merely a branch of the American Deep State, but a *trunk.*

    So why make this long post about such a short part of the podcast? The implications of Moon’s influence on American elite Christian opinion makers, and by extension their audiences, are profound. He openly fused politics and religion, saying that “segregation between religion and politics is what Satan likes most.” In taking the timeless message in the Gospels and cheapening it with a preoccupation with du jour political concerns, Moon’s church embraced with gusto Guenon’s concept of “counter-initiation” as a positive thing. The notion that the “Moral Majority” of the 80s and beyond would take money from a church which was *even then* still being implicated in brainwashing America’s youth; that was implicated in international arms and drug trafficking and the depredations of Indian and nun-slaughtering death squads in Latin America; that boasted a visceral contempt for the American system of government; and that, most astounding of all, professed a novel type of “Christianity” complete with a self-proclaimed “messiah” given so totally given to blasphemy as to strain credulity—why, oh why would these people have taken one thin dime from this man and his church?

    I believe the answer to this question is the very same answer as to why this “deep state” apparatus has received such scarce treatment by the leading lights of the conspiritainment industry in the US: his politics were “right” and at the end of the day, that is all that matters. To this I would add that among the elite think tank “shock troop” types that spawned out of Moon’s political warfare academies in the 60s and beyond (not to mention the American Security Council’s “psycho-political warfare” schools—but I repeat myself) …Moon’s contempt for democracy itself is shared by those who have given him a pass while taking his cash. If they had a problem with it, it wouldn’t have happened, but they were and are on the same page. Should the day come, and it well might, when the US loses its (on paper) democratic system of government, one can be sure the Reverend Moon will take a victory lap from his high perch in “the spirit world.” And Pat Robertson and his ilk will be right there with him, dancing the devil’s dance in death as he does in life.
    I mean, what’s not to like about this?
    https://www.vox.com/2018/3/1/17067894/church-bullet-crowns-ar15-world-peace-unification-sanctuary-moonies-moon
    Anyway! Don’t forget to take your pills, kids! Red pills, blue pills, purple pills, whatever your flavor—just take your meds!

    Reply
    • comprehensive & informative; i was aware of the broadstroke CIA-Moonies since my 20s, maybe via Brussell, & wasn’t aware of it being marginalized but then nor did i consider it esp relevant, so perhaps proof of the marginalization? a critic of vice of kings recently told me I focused too much on the Fabian Society.

      in passing, i think i understand your point about the Jews-meme but I am not sure in what universe discerning between 1.5 million & 6 million constitutes “hair-splitting.”

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      • Hey, you know that part was a bit off topic and hair splitting was a wrong/sarcastic choice of words, too flippant on my part given the subject. Not quite holocaust denial but…minimization. Anyway, I caught the UC reference at the Discodia site and followed through to find…yet another UFO channeling sect, so many of which concerned themselves with “racial hygiene” and such, traveling across space and time and eternity to talk eugenics, racial hierarchies and sure enough, there it is. You can set your watch by it. Why oh why would all these ETs light up ouija boards across the land in the last 150 years with urgent messages on these matters in particular? “Hey hippies! Its me, Beelzebub, was just passing through on my way to planet Zoltrot 9 so in a bit of a hurry but anyways, I got your ouija text and I just wanted to remind you earthlings, again, that white people are the tip top best! Carry on little brothers!”

        Put on your thinking cap and your Silver Shirt and…Really makes you think, you know?

        Back to (my) topic from which I strayed: the victors, as they say, get to write history, but they also get to erase it and are best positioned to make us forget history. I referred above to the playing field having been largely cleared, giving one side a free hand, and the UC is a big blinking case study for the sorts of things that get forgotten. One thing is clear to me, if they were taking young people away from their families and making them join unions or vote for Carter back in the 70s, surely Bill Cooper would have given them some ink, and Alex Jones would still be ranting about them to this day.

        My point in the above 2000-word rant, which maybe got lost in it all is this: what I wrote up there was just off the top of my head, and there is so much more to just this one story. But the above checks off a lot of conspiritainment boxes: cults and mind control stuff, drug and human trafficking, deep state & CIA shenanigans, generation-spanning social engineering projects, even Golden Lily treasure…Seems like it would be “conspiracy theory” catnip, so why the dearth of content on it? Like I said there are plenty of survivor stories, some of which are painful to listen to, and all these are valuable and brave, but there’s so much meat on that bone, one would have thought the conspiracy entertainment industrial complex would have been all over it. Instead one has to dig through 30+ year old Dave Emory shows or the older-still Brussel stuff, or parapolitical writing from the 80s to get that “deep state” take on it. Even that vox story linked above says more, with more stub-outs inviting further inquiry, than one finds in that “industry” which allegedly concerns itself so deeply with “bringing you the truth.” It’s just like with the UFO thing: IMO it’s more useful to employ some meta-analysis—who is pushing what stories, ignoring others, and to what end—than to try to take the content being pushed seriously on its own dubious merit.

        Again, put on your thinking cap, strap on that Tong-Il AR-15 and…Really makes you think, no?

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        • Personally I try to avoid expressing an opinion about Holocaust revisionism because it is such a minefield, but “minimization” suggests an attempt to reduce numbers and thereby downplay the importance of, but it would be hard to deny that the opposite has been the SOP in the mainstream media. This is precisely why that number is so important, because, if it has been inflated, then that points to an agenda of disinfo and a “Holocaust Industry” – name of a very good book by “self-hating Jew” Norman Finkelstein – which is why many of these so-called “deniers” are unable to let the sleeping Leviathan lie. Actual holocaust denial seems likely to be a psyop to discredit by association the revisionist researcher who smell a very large rat floating in history’s swimming pool.

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    • Fascinating take on the interface between cults and intelligence and a lot of it checks out with my research as a former Moonie who spent 20+ years in the bowels of this operation. I can tell you from my own experience that we need to invest more attention to the Japanese Yakuza connection of the Moon cult. The relationship actually predates Moon’s association with the CIA. The archives of the Unification church strongly suggest that Moon was trained by the Imperial Japanese Kempeitai to spy on his fellow country men. Moon’s career/cover as a Christian minister appears to have had it’s roots in Japanese occupied Korea where most of the effective resistance were Christians. Naturally, any Korean Christians associated with western missionaries were suspect. However, Moon appears to have grown up in the “other” acclimatized ministries that mixed Siberian Shamanism with the Gospels and reinterpreted scripture to suit it’s own agenda. This may explain why Moon was able to make the transition into the ranks of the OSS formulated South Korean Government after World war 2 along with other collaborationists. Having survived a stint involving his being infiltrated into North Korea, Moon very aptly ingratiated himself with both the successive autocratic South Korean governments and their principle sponsors, the CIA. Moon appears to have masterfully performed his role as a Christian cult leader albeit with misunderstandings with both the South Korean and U.S. governments over his personal tax liability. His most noteworthy accomplishment was the revival of his relationship with his pre- WW2 employers; Kishi, Sasakawa, and Kodama. The three having been released by MacArther and Willoughby in a similar arrangement as their Nazi cohorts in Europe. The fortunes of Moon’s representatives in Japan appear to have surged after a secretive meeting between these parties in the early 1960’s. Combined with the natural industriousness of the Japanese cultists, the influence of the moonies expanded diametrically world wide. Most conspicuously in the halls of the U.S. Congress and within the American media but much more sinisterly, within the finances of the Conservative Christian movement in the U.S.
      Precious little information is available on these relationships outside of open speculation but hopefully Recluse and other interested parties with dig it out and expose it. I am particularly interested in including the ex-moonie community in Japan and Korea in this research as they continue to fall out of orbit of the cult while it gradually diminishes having run it’s course as most cults do.

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      • Thank you for this, Frank!

        I read somewhere that the “indemnity stick” referred to above was a mutation of old shamanic practices, but I don’t recall where.

        The relationship between the early UC and the Moral Re-Armament movement is also something that IMO deserves more attention. If the Moonies reside in a historical memory hole, well…MRA has virtually disappeared into the vacuum left when the victors write history (because the victors also get to erase history, natch). MRA was another of these movements which was employed to, I don’t know how else to say it, pervert and distort Christianity, subjugating it to the political concerns of the day. MRA was influential in the development of both the UC in Korea AND “The Family” cult in the US. In one of the few books to be published on the UC, “Bad Moon Rising” (2008), the author notes that when Bo Hi Pak first came to the US in the late 50s, he met with the precursor organization to the Family, the International Council for Christian Leadership. The integration/coordination and parallel efforts undertaken by these elite Christian movements changed our society forever and it is, again, a story that is largely untold–although Jeff Sharlet’s recent documentary series and his books are a great resource in this regard. Suffice to say, these are the people who took the real Jesus hostage, tied him up with duct tape over his mouth in back of the church so they could take Christianity into a meaner, more militant and yes, *right wing* direction, trampling the Beatitudes underfoot in the process.

        Anyway, those interested in exploring aspects of MRA/Moonie history that really does not appear in most books on either subject (I know, I’ve read a bunch of em), can have a look here:

        https://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/korean-intelligence-head-kim-jong-pil-and-the-mra-moral-rearmament/

        …In which one also sees screenshots from The Game Player, by CIA agent (and father of the drummer for The Police), Miles Copeland. In the book Copeland tells on himself, coining the phrase Occultism in High Places (OHP) to describe the use of “the irrational” to manage world leaders and affairs–from Papa Doc’s voodoo to Reagan’s Jeanne Dixon. Copeland specifically mentions MRA and the CoS in this capacity. MRA turned out to be very influential not just in terms of the early Moon church but in East Asian politics generally–one can find Kishi and other LDP leaders, and S. Koreans speaking very highly of MRA in published works and speeches.

        Moral Re-Armament if it comes up at all is usually mentioned in context with Alcoholics Anonymous, both of which originated from the same source, namely the “Oxford Group” in the UK–which is itself fascinating, as all these movements employed the technique known in the CoS as “auditing,” but I digress…

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        • Totally agree KAD, and forgive me for forgetting about MRA. They appear to have been discarded right about the same time the World Anti-Communist league was cooked up. The Moonies “indemnity stick” had to have been a rough equivalent to the Scientologists method of auditing out old engrams.

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          • Nothing to forgive sir. Just glad not to be out on this limb all alone! I got the chance to dive real deep into WACL a few years ago. Didn’t know anything about the UC until taking that dive. About MRA fading out, maybe so but it seems to have really taken hold. i found in those Wikileaks cables the Park regime invoking the need for moral Rearmament against communism, but it was clear he meant it in a more generic, sloganeering sense. Still, it was a ready to hand vocabulary and surely his audience was aware of the significance. Again, these people turned Jesus into a mere strike breaker…

    • While it is largely true that Much of the Conspir-o-sphere is of the reactionary variety, There is a huge swath of the (actual) left (I’m distinguishing this from the ‘approved’ left of the Amy Goodman/Rachel Maddow/Bill Maher ‘left’-which the Q Crowd identifies as ‘far left’ but it really the accomodationist wing of the centre-left which reserves the right to kvetch and complain about US, Israeli, or European imperialism in certain narrow loci of activity….eg: It’s not acceptable for Isreali snipers to dispatch Palestinian youth protestors with messy head shots, but it’s also not acceptable for people to complain too loudly about AIPAC’s domination of US foreign policy.
      I got my ‘conspiracy wings’ with Noam Chomsky, Michael Parenti, Ace R. Hayes, Peter Dale Scott and Ward Churchill. None of these people identify as ‘conservative’ in any way. Chomsky is compromised famously by his neurologist-linguistic work for the ONI. But I’m OK to believe he really opposed the Vietnam adventure. if someone opposes war always on general principles and is consistent in it, I’ll give them the time of day.
      The Recluse is coming from the same place I am as far as I can tell. He neatly synthesizes many researchers I’ve admired, from Mae Brussel to Dave Emory (who saw Germans behind everything evil in the world in the same reductive way Lyndon Larouche blamed all evil on Englishmen.

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      • I understand exactly what you are saying here, and am familiar with these same authors, esp PDS. Regarding Emory, it is all to true: he has been finding nazis/fascists under every bed for decades. There are more dimensions to Emory. For instance, it was from his work I learned about Julian Assange (and Tulsi Gabbard) growing up in cults.

        Interestingly, he gave Levenda like 6 episodes worth of airtime just to talk about the latter’s book The Hitler Legacy and Levenda’s long pastime, similar to Emory, of gazing into the nazi abyss. So of course these two had lots to talk about. I think giving that much airtime to Kevin Coogan* might have been more fruitful but oh well.

        Anyway, the gulf between the authors you cite and the mainstream conspiratainment industry is deep and wide, with the Chomskys and PDS and such being much more sober minded and well researched. The “mainstream” is more about emotional appeals, the “charismatising” or “supernaturalisation” of the target enemy and stoking the attendant “holy dread” against them, and the “when prophecy fails” type cycles they use to “separate the sheep from the goats” as it were. Peter Dale Scott is so qualitatively different than, say, WIlliam Cooper as to belong to another category altogether. I would say the PDS types belong to the “parapolitics” tradition rather than the “conspiracy” tradition. And I would certainly put Recluse in the parapolitics box rather than the conspiracy box: Not selling vitamins like Jones (or the Minutemen back in the day), not hyping some immanent NWO takeover, not telling anyone who to hate–just doing the hard work.

        Finally, the comparison between Emory and Larouche, while I totally get where you are coming from, made me wince a little. I really like his work but yes, Emory has earned the comparison on account of his being a hammer forever in search of that nazi nail. That being said, the differences between these two illustrate the differences between the parapolitical types and conspiracy-mongers. Emory has doggedly pursued his peculiar passion, even doing his radio show through what appears to have been recovery from throat cancer (?) but he has never done things like…break records for most runs for president, start a political cult, hype stories about his immanent assassination to tap that “when prophecy fails” cycle, deploying legbreakers to harass his enemies, put spooks like Mitch Werbell on his payroll, etc etc.

        *Kevin Coogan btw, was apparently once a LaRouchite himself. I have wondered if Dreamer of the Day was his making peace with his conscience after the experience of being in the cult, but who can say…

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  3. I read the Sinister Forces trilogy and Unholy Alliance a number of years ago and was a little surprised to realize that Peter Levenda is a questionable person. I suppose the strongest parts of those books was compiling research done by other authors with little new information from the author himself. His alliance with the guy from Blink 182 is laughable.

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  4. About the Levenda thing:

    I got into Dave Emory’s work about 12 or 13 years ago, and it was his dogged nazi-hunting ways that put me on the trail leading to Levenda’s Unholy Alliance. Then about 2014-15 I went on a Levanda kick and got most of what he had then published. Read them all practically back to back: Sinister Forces, then his book on Freemasonry, Mormonism, and finally, Stairway to Heaven. The latter three were all excellent in their own ways as was his 3 volume magnum opus. Jasun once remarked that for all his breadth PL lacked depth in his work; I disagree, I think he has displayed plenty of both, and a wide scope of work on a variety of topics which tend to converge on each other with enough space can itself impart depth to breadth. Moreover, Sinister Forces alone even if one considers it a mere survey is valuable in and of itself, providing avenues for further research among those who feel called to it. We needed such a survey and in this trilogy we got it.

    However: I see the entirety of UFO culture and speculation and all of it as a 99% “longitudinal” psychological warfare program with maybe 1% objective reality behind it. All noise no signal. Odds are good I am being too derogatory in these made up statistics but nevertheless, it is so very full to the brim with spooks that it is more valuable to study it in terms of how psywar works in practice than to try and ascertain the “truth” about any of it. I have at times wondered if the whole thing is a carefully built Rube Goldberg machine of bullshit designed for the express purpose of making me roll my eyes.

    So to have Peter Levenda, a literary “hero” of mine from way back sign up to be part of this culture was deeply disappointing. One of the most important points about the “to the stars academy” that is overlooked far too often is staring us all right in the face, and that is this: Blink 182’s music is *objectively terrible.* Just….just that alone disqualifies the whole bloody thing, and it is something I will confess to having turned over in my mind several times when I was forced to consider the awful fact that TTSA exists at all, much less PL’s participation in it. Why? Why, dear God, why did they grab the Blink 182 guy? Why couldn’t have been Neil Fallon, for instance? Even a caterwauling David Yow would have been cooler than this (way cooler). Did the UFO Grand Spooky Council of Elders look at Blink 182 and say to themselves “let’s get the guy who sings with a clothespin over his nose, my grandkids love em, all the kids love em! This will bring in the kids!” Is that how it worked? And then they call the book “Sekret Machines,” like the K makes it edgy or something? It is just too hamfisted, just trying too hard. I recall thinking when I heard about this TTSA, “oh, Levenda is angling to be a History Channel talking head now, I guess.” Yes this is me judging a book by its cover, but just off their “elevator speech” and their roster, it appears these people are seriously off their game, and that may be the silver lining to the whole cloud of “swamp gas:” they do not appear to be getting better at repackaging this garbage. I cannot even roll my eyes as per custom anymore, because my eyes are transfixed in horror and despair for the human race looking at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1tAYmMjLdY

    As for Levenda being my “literary hero,” well…bubbles are made for busting. I did read Vice of Kings earlier this year. Excellent book, quite painful at times—one of those “shields up!” kind of books, and one that speaks to the courage of the author, not just in terms of the confessional personal aspects but also in taking these sacred cows and just serving em up as the juicy steaks they were meant to be. I have studied, again with shields up, a number of gurus, prophets and religion mongers over the years, and while Crowley certainly stands in a category all his own, he nevertheless was a prophet with arguably the most prolific pen of all time. And he was pretty explicit about his desire to break all taboos, cross every threshold, climb every mountain, suffer every indignity, troll every bridge, invite the wrath of the world upon his head, etc. So why make a fuss about whether there were some things he wouldn’t do? Really now: is there anything in Crowley’s life, or words, or works, or deeds, to suggest he simply had some lines he would not cross? Without getting into the substance of the most explosive allegations in VoK: before I read the thing I tried to keep an open mind but still, just knowing what I knew then of the Thelemic Prophet, my attitude was “yeah, wouldn’t put it past him.” Transgression, again, is the Way of the Prophet after all. But to decide ahead of time and spend so much capital Arguing On The Internet about it, risking your “brand” and reputation in the process? I confess I scratched my head at this notion…there’s a word for it when one already has the answer before the question is asked or the evidence is presented, and the word is “ideological.” “I don’t believe it, won’t believe it, say what you like but my mind is made up.” It has been a while since I followed the exchanges between Horsely and Levenda but I recall thinking at the time PL was taking an ideological stance. Meanwhile, what is the book of the law but a work of proto-fascist scripture? That’s how it looks from here! So it was a real turn off which was all the more odd given his work and career which appears to come from a more “left” position. He had some fairly kind words for the Clintons, for example, in one of the Sinister Forces volumes (3, I think)—or at least, he pointed out that “vast right wing conspiracy” to destroy them was quite real. Putting aside the issue of whether (and why) they had it coming lo these decades, he wasn’t wrong to point it out. Exposing the dark occult forces latent in Nazism, exposing Colonia Dignidad…these all suggested to me in my younger days that Levenda at the least wouldn’t consider himself to be a “right wing” kinda guy. So why would he feel compelled to ideologically defend Crowley and his theology of will to power and elite domination? It…just didn’t make sense at the time, but oh well!

    Don’t know if there has been any sort of substantial rebuttal to VoK’s claims since it came out. But it would be interesting to read, if anyone out there could even bring themselves up to the task—Horsely gave any challenger a Himalayan mountain to have to climb…worthy of the Great Beast himself lol

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    • (With all that deliberately extreme prejudice against UFO culture described above aside…I did start Prisoner of Infinity today, so there’s that…)

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    • Interesting comments.

      You’re probably right about UFO’s being a ‘longitudinal psych op’ – probably with the intention of creating a new religion that is plausible because its consonant with modern scientific narratives.

      Overall, the existence of a perennial cult organized out of elite secret societies describes civilization from the get-go. Peter Levenda is just one example; another one is Jason louv (and Douglas Rushkoff would be another). Both are eager to mix a little bit of truth with a lot of nonsense, chiefly with the goal of promoting left hand path metaphysical individualism.

      That is the whole goal of it all: confuse the relations that bind human beings to the social worlds and natural environment we exist with reference to. The whole point of secret societies is and has always been about regulating – or subverting – the ability of non-elites from recognizing the dynamical continuities, circularities and tensions that link us up with the objects around us.

      A million lies; the more plural, the better. The more junk there is, the harder it is to discern the truth from falsehood. How can you trust someone in a world like this? The only litmus test I know of is this: the more logical and contextual a persons analysis is, the more serious he is likely to be about spreading truth.

      The more unreasonable and uncheckable the claims a person makes, he is either a poorly educated person, or a deliberate misinformer.

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  5. I really enjoyed the discussion between Jasun and Recluse! Great flow between you guys and I enjoyed the musical interludes as well. Something I found interesting was Recluse’s candid confession that having Crowley’s books around made him uncomfortable at times, and his worry that “decent Christian people” might have taken offense to these materials’ existence in his home. I feel that this is precisely one of the reasons why operatives burrow into these occult subcultures, they know that traditionally-minded, so-called “decent” people are naturally inclined to look away from these fields of study. I feel like Recluse probably knows this already. In regards to some of the great comments by kad: The ‘k’ being inserted into the word “secret’ isn’t just to be an “edgy” misspelling, I feel its a device used to indicate the magick/occult underpinnings of the phenomenon. Magic with no “k” indicates the world of David Copperfield and Penn and Teller. Magick with a k lets you know you’re not in Kansas anymore, you’re in the realm of Crowley and Grant. It’s a subtle but effective device. I was surprised that there was no mention of Levenda’s fairly recent novel “The Lovecraft Code” in this discussion, many scholars often point out that the juiciest, most sensitive topics are sometimes cloaked in fiction, so I’m interested in the topics that Levenda felt he needed to wrap with a fiction cover story.

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  6. I think you mentioned recently that your research is delving into AI.

    The fact that you are so proficient and thorough in looking into many dark subjects has me waiting with trepidation as to what you may uncover and piece together if you Indeed go down that road.

    The Glee and lack of awareness for the possible negative impact on humans many of these scientist exhibit is horrifying.

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  7. In terms of Occultism , John Michael Greer has pointed out that the Golden Dawn System of magick that spawned Crowley , Fuller and many others was adapted from older systems, possibly from Egypt that had an over emphasis on solar energies and currents, unchecked by any effective lunar or earthen counter measures.

    As one can observe, this tends to have an ego inflating effect, resulting in schisms and spectacular individual and collective super-nova type melt downs.
    In terms of fascism being the reiification of archetypal forces, its not hard to see Hitler and the Nazis being animated and then consumed by these forces.

    I practiced GD stuff for a while and was beset by persistent dreams of Nazis and encirclement in general. Found myself studying ww2 maps and the movements of various SS and Panzer divisions throughout the conflict. That i was able to confide all this to a Jungian analysts no doubt saved me from much greater harm and i gave it away. I was particularly fascinated by the final geographical disposition of the Reich at wars end. Utterly surrounded and split into two sections.

    The Nazis came to power sporting nationalist and socialist principles but later purged the socialist part. Have the engineers corrected the imbalance in later workings as they gave birth to the twin beasts of Neoliberalism and Neconservatism at the end of the 1970’s. If so what archetypes have they reiified ? Thor and Odin seem to be on the backburner. These ones seem far more Protean and Tricksterishly sophisticated, while retaining a reactionary heart. Sky Gods (Aten / Internet) seem to be involved. To make it even more confusing, Jews are not exempt from this mind virus, and their bent towards collective good may make them even more susceptible. The holocaust these days is used mainly to shield Jewish neoliberal fascists from critiscism of their actions. This insults the memory of all those killed by the Nazis, and there are many in Israel itself who see it for what it is.

    Also fascinating that GD magick uses hebrew language, symbols and imagery, which once again does not make all Jews responsible.

    I wouldnt class Robert David Steele as reliable by any stretch, but he makes some good points here

    https://ahtribune.com/interview/2933-zionism-ilhan-omar.html

    These Commies point out the true reactionary nature of Social Democracy.

    https://medium.com/@BlackRedGuard/ideological-social-democracy-is-social-fascism-yet-again-6cbc43cc4bff

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  8. It just dawned on me that hurling neoliberalism against a decaying soviet union in 1980 was like Barbarossa Mk 2, it has also failed. The Russians again simply retreated into the vastness of their icy wastes until they could mount their Putin led counterattack.
    Will they ever stop trying ?

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    • Probably not; that would entail becoming conscious of the unconscious trauma driving them into endless impositions of the same false-god-form (satan-identity complex) on the terrifying body of the unwashed masses – standing in for their own “unclean” vessel.

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  9. Yes i think you are right it is Satan-Kronos-Midas-Hades isnt it. He who devours his own children and the earthbound dark side of Zeus. The internet will immobilise us all ‘Player One’ style once we all have our Hermes Virtual reality helmets.
    The Russian bear may be a female who doesnt like them, Ditto Chinese Dragon and Islamic Iranian Moon-Goddess. Oh and there’s also the green Druids who seem to see them for what they are.

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  10. I really enjoyed this episode. Can I make one suggestion though? You need to mix your voice and the guests voice differently so they are closer to the same level, there were points when Recluse’s voice was super loud and yours was very quiet and hard to hear. I hope that doesn’t sound asshole-ish but I would turn my headphones up super loud to catch what you were saying and then Recluse would come back in and blast me!

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    • not ass-holish at all but I work pretty hard on sound levels and they rarely seem to quite match up; this is partially but not wholly because i record my voice in a separate program & then splice the two together. It’s also due to dropped sound via Zoom or Skype

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  11. Insects or serpents?
    kaleidoscope ink squirm squirts TRAUMA
    Spotlight search the leaves blow listless in the smoke stack mound
    Pound the pavement on the desolate route
    Trees as Ivory or posion tusks burrowing from moist soil
    Worming holes of spiral colours
    Don’t repeat report and repose
    Line hooked news alert in techno fire
    Spoke think talk stack
    Double deaf Orwell on the bank bark sap
    Lips whirling wasps on hive mind blue bunk
    Choke the girl in the rust red dawn
    Spat the tarry staircase on the astroid black square
    Kitten kites in faraway destinations
    Seeding bright bears for royals honey
    She laid her wiggling pink egg sac in the crust of a quicksand sunk tank
    War or peace hatched in muddy debris
    Gestation a brooding moral decay

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  12. Not really commenting so much on the content as much as im giving praise for honing your craft, been listening for a longtime, and you craft gets better every year, and that includes selection(and/or availability now) of guests. Also, shout out to your Kephas days, Homo Serpiens is still fun to flip through.

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