The Liminalist # 160: An Invisible Awakening (Discussing The Greek)

Jasun talks about how he came to The Greek, the Antichrist in Assyria, the Bible as instruction manual, appealing to the apocalyptic in Jake, a timeline for the end-times, a Middle Eastern union, the New Assyria, a social utopia, when the gods intervene, Strieber rabbit-hole, water storage, a lateral diet, viruses & the liver, misinformed across the board, flat-earthism, fear-motivational cult creation, death awareness, longing for the gods, readers’ comments, the integration process, the problem of The Greek, how the present catches up with prophet spiels, doublethink in 2018, the breakdown of the narrative, an invisible awakening, Leftist spawns of the New Age.

Songs: “I’m Going Insane,” “Clap Hands” by Lee Maddeford; “Bad News” by The Blacks; “Hangman’s Song” by The Pine Valley Cosmonauts


27 thoughts on “The Liminalist # 160: An Invisible Awakening (Discussing The Greek)”

  1. I took this Greek excursion as, “remember Liminalistas, this could have been us”. I also always thought that “front lines, end times” and “apocalyptic mindset” were, in a way, good things. It meant to me that, all seeds planted (thoughts/desires/actions) while wearing a mask would grow diseased, terrible roots, plants and fruits and that all seeds planted in goodness, compassion and honesty, according to God’s law, or whatever, would be the only worthwhile gardening to do.. but, anyway :

    “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts” 😉

  2. Hi Jasun
    Victor Schauberger is a grate source for knowledge
    an inspiration about Water.
    Scientist, inventor and lover of nature.

    … Summer must be beautiful in B.C.

    • I assumed Greek must have gotten his oval water vessel info from Schauberger as well. I was on a huge Schauberger kick a couple years back and even went so far as to buy a “water cradle” from Dancing With Water. The water does seem to have a different mouth-feel after incubating.

  3. I’m very skeptical about his claims regarding technical expertise, knowledge of ancient Greek and Latin etc. The former I can’t evaluate accurately, but I’m inclined to think he’s just skillfully manipulating. If during a conversation someone says “well you do know how the pancreas does this and that and how your liver functions in such and such fashion, or how this electronic device does what it does, right?”, choice is to either admit ignorance, and admit inferiority which I’d say people like The Greek are after among other things, or to say “yes, of course, carry on” and allow the guy to continue making his potentially bogus point.

    The latter however I can somewhat gauge since I learned Greek and Latin for a number of years in both elementary and high school. This isn’t nearly as impressive as it might sound, since I forgot just about everything but I still do have my dictionaries about. And his insistence that pneuma is soul while psyche is mind is not correct. Both words have many meanings, they overlap a lot, and while psyche indeed can mean mind among many other things, it is primarily taken to mean soul, like for example shade in the underworld. It can also mean life and life energy. Pneuma on the other hand can mean soul, spirit, breath, wind etc. Anyway, my impression was he used the moment to simply negate your statement in order to assert his superiority through nitpicking about the meaning of two words. I imagine he impresses his circle of followers that way, certainly that elderly gentleman that was present with the 2 of you who most certainly wasn’t capable of pronouncing anything when reading the Hippocratic oath. Furthermore his whole point about Hippocratic oath was moot.

    As for your notion that we might be victims of overarching lie about just about everything about the world, while I can sympathize with this feeling up to a point I must say it is a very dangerous topic to meddle into. Where do you think it can take you? And how can you verify anything in that case? It would require having expertise in literally every field of science in order to personally make sure that something is or isn’t true. Not to mention that, since everyone are in on it, you would have to gain all this expertise on your own, because all the books are wrong. This simply isn’t possible. Alternatively, I prefer using common sense and rely on the fact that if something is taken as true and acted on as if it was true and if these actions produce predicted results, be it ship navigation, radar and radio technology usage, change of seasons or predicting weather patterns, then that something very probably really is true, at the very least roughly. Shape of the Earth, medical science, basic physics, all these things are covered in this way.

    His practical advice, about water storage, diet, etc, are in my opinion a rhetorical trick. We had this charlatan in Croatia years ago, who went about under a rather comical name of “Horus Hay”. He was selling some cardboard pyramids that you were supposed to hold glass of water under and it would instill beneficiary energy into that water so when you’d drink it you’d become stronger, healthier, that sort of thing. Also he supposedly healed people by staring ominously at the camera, sending energy through the screen I suppose, then asking “how about now?” to which the patient would of course answer “it really does hurt less!”. All this while wearing absolutely hilarious purple clothes. However he’d weave into this fairly clownish performance less contested advice, for example about sleeping so that your body is pointing north-south, as opposed to east-west. I have no clue how important or true that is, but I remember very well this being told by many other people, who were no fools or charlatans, so it does have credence in general population. Heck, I sleep in north-south position. Point being such a claim makes him look more credible to people when he does the rest of his act. Claim itself has nothing to do with his central message, it is just a mean to soften people up for it.

    Similar thing I’ve noticed among various UFO personas. I listened some time ago to one talk of Phillip Schneider, there’s a video on youtube. I remember him addressing a hall full of people, retelling some military SF story about how he participated in a firefight in which aliens fought deep underground against green berets or CIA agents or something such. Audience was silent. But then all of a sudden he begins saying how they have to keep their guns and make sure the government doesn’t take away their guns, and they have to keep their faith in Jesus because otherwise aliens will win. His audience, apparently being American conservative types, burst into applause. I bet his story from a moment ago about seeing aliens shoot plasma rifles at green berets sounded way less out there after that. Imo these practical advices about water, rice, diet, health etc that The Greek gives out are a similar instrument. They might very well be true, or at the very least they might hold some credibility. But that is beside the point, since point is to make the audience more receptive to the rest of what is being said.

    Besides that, I am always repulsed by people making specific future predictions that include politics. In how many years will what nation states create what union… yeah, whatever.

    There are some truths in what he says, of course. You said that he made a point about the speculated somewhat paradoxical emerging secular scientistic bible-based order being percieved as good and the perfect way to end the current calamities, while in fact resulting in a disaster. This is a good point, actual evil always wears disguise of good. However I don’t need The Greek to tell me that, it is not only very openly stated in the Bible and various religious traditions, but is also being pointed out by many way more grounded and less obnoxious people out there who aren’t trying to create a personality cult.

    I don’t want to sound like a smartass who is wise to manipulating pricks because I’m so smart. In fact I’ve got this dumb weakness that I love listening to similar material for fun and over time I noticed patterns and logic to it. I’d like to think this fault of mine has at least some positive effect. Listening to the Greek reinforced many of the notions I had on the subject, I have to say it was useful to me in this sense.

  4. Last year I stumbled upon your work via Matrix Warrior (buying your entire catalog along the way) and I am grateful to now follow your continued transformation via audio. This encounter with The Greek (on your road of trials) only amplifies my gratitude.

    We need more people who are capable of staring into the abyss of darkness without falling in, and without losing sight of the light. Thank you.

  5. “Perhaps I’m old and tired, but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied.”
    — Douglas Adams

  6. Hope my ‘Don’t bother’ comment didn’t come across as too dismissive — I very much appreciate what you’re doing/bothering with! Your project of integration is compelling because characterised by complete openness and integrity. There’s nothing like your podcast anywhere else on the internet.

    Re viruses and emperor’s clothes, I don’t know if you might find this interesting:

  7. Hi Jasun, I’ve been following your work since the SW days and find it to be consistently engaging, enlightening, and entertaining. So *thank you* for all that you’ve shared.

    I listen to pretty much every podcast you put out but only skimmed through The Greek’s due to all of the unsympathetic comments. Listening to this one gave me a pretty good idea of what it dealt with. Having been immersed in the conspiracy world since a young age (I was researching the JFK assassination back in middle school lol), it sounds like I didn’t miss much.

    I do have one question, if you don’t mind me asking. What issues do you have with Gordon White’s work? I can’t stand The Higherside Chats (ugh), but Rune Soup is the only other podcast I listen to regularly besides yours. I’ve never had an urge to become a practicing occultist, but as an outside observer, it’s a fascinating area. I seem to recall a previous podcast where you mentioned having invited him, so you must have had some interest at one point?

    • hi longtime listener

      I wonder how many others are still tuning in from those days…..

      GW, well two things, one personal, the other general. As with Alex Skeptiko (who I finally heard from just a moment ago), I was set to do a podcast with GW (I think on my end) and he stood me up and stopped answering my emails. That was a long time back, before my Crowley and Levenda investigations and before i became as thoroughly disgusted with the occult scene as I am now. I am aware that GW is a smart chap and a cut above the average in the podcast realm/ But his interests and affiliations are just too dang iffy for me.

      what is it you like about him?

      • I only began listening to Rune Soup within the past 6 months, but I like how he interviews practitioners of a wide range of eclectic spiritualities. I’m an American-born child of Korean immigrants, and Korea never really had an official religion. Buddhism was often suppressed due to being seen as subversive towards the Confucian-based social order, and Christianity only began making inroads last century. Most Koreans practiced a blend of ancestor worship and animism (throwing a handful of rice in the four directions to appease the nature spirits).

        My parents did convert to Catholicism, the religion I was raised in, but culturally I’ve always felt like I had my feet in both worlds: the major orthodox religions vs. folk religion/magic/occultism. You say you’re disgusted with “the occult scene,” but I think we would have to clarify that statement. Modern western occultism is certainly suspect, with its ties to intelligence agencies and the power elite, but I would hesitate to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It would be like someone saying they’re disgusted with “the religion scene.”

        I’ve never read Crowley, but what I’ve read about him never piqued my interest. Perhaps it’s a holdover of imperialism that so many practitioners of magic(k)(lol) held him up as the ultimate arbiter of esoteric truth. What about Siberian shamans? Aboriginal Australian elders? Indonesian peasant wise women? Chinese Taoist magicians? They can’t all be lumped together and dismissed as a whole.

        I get what you mean about GW’s iffy associations, since he’s interviewed Levenda and Kripal, but I think he’s just a huge occultism nerd, having been “practicing” since he was a youngster. Being gay and growing up in rural Australia, he seems to have a sense of being “other,” and I respect his efforts to decolonize magic. It’s certainly interesting listening to actual practitioners of various indigenous traditions.

        But like yourself, I do feel a certain attraction towards the orthodox religions. I was surprised as hell to see Rene Guenon mentioned on your blog, and your conversation with Charles Upton was wonderful. Maybe it really is all about surrendering ourselves to God in the end, and this isn’t just an intellectual concept for me.

        I became disabled over 10 years ago due to multiple illnesses which prevent me from living a “normal” life (homebound, almost bedridden), and I can actually feel my mortality on a visceral level. It’s like I’m frozen in liminal space, and with nothing to fight, the only choice really is just to surrender. Spiritually, my only goal is to empty my heart of any bitterness before I die; if I can do that, I’ll have nothing to fear in the next world.

        • sorry for the delay, on the road currently and the larger more in-depth comments tend to get the short-end of it.

          Guenon allowed that “pure shamanism” may have entailed connection to the divine – my guess is that occultism like organized religion is an inversion, not merely a deviation/corruption… that original shamanic practices weren’t results-driven but the contrary, forms of ceremonial expression that emerged out of a human-divine embodiment, as when we dance to music. Only a fool believes the dancing creates the music, but this is occultism in a nutshell.

          Physical illness is itself a shamanic tradition and for myself I would say now that the body teaches us (the ego-mind) anyway it can to let go of those structures that keep it defended against life/the divine, and generally that involves pain and affliction. Hence the Christian symbolism of the cross.

          Your last sentence seems to me both true and not-true at the same time. Again, result-s oriented. If the reason to open one’ heart in this life is merely to avoid some post-mortem fate, then the heart will never really be open. Surely the reason to experience true compassion is, ipso facto, not to do with oneself?

          • I didn’t mean to imply that my “only reason” for wanting to empty my heart of bitterness was to avoid some post-mortem fate, since I do agree that being so “results-oriented” would be the greatest obstacle on such a path. I guess what I mean is that it’s really the only thing that seems to matter, or even seems possible, at this point. It’s not something I’m “working” towards, but rather something that seems to be happening on its own. All I can do is try to not get in the way. 🙂

            And it’s not that I actually “fear” what the next world might hold. It’s more that if I can fully open my heart and surrender to what is, then it doesn’t really matter what happens in the next world. Even if it turns out to be complete oblivion.

            I’ve certainly contemplated the possibility that physical illness is a way that the body teaches the egoic mind to let go of those defenses. But I must admit that there’s a part of me that resists this idea. As in, “Is it really necessary for me to go through this for this long?” It seems a bit excessive, and it brings up the question as to whether or not there is nobility in suffering.

            I do wonder what a “pure shamanism” would look like. The first image that comes to mind is Sufi whirling dervishes. It’s interesting that you see both occultism and organized religion as inversions, considering your continuing flirtation with Christianity. Guenon claimed that the orthodox religions were necessary in order for their mystical/esoteric branches to exist, and I’m inclined to agree.

            Perhaps it’s out of ignorance, but personally I don’t see occultism as particularly dangerous, but rather just a different path. Yes, it’s results-driven, but so are the orthodox religions (trying to gain salvation), and most of the planet’s population belongs to orthodoxy. I don’t know. I lean towards the belief that we all incarnate with different soul configurations which are drawn towards different types of practices.

            After all, in Hinduism, there’s bhakti yoga (path of devotion), jnana yoga (path of knowledge), karma yoga (path of action), and raja yoga (path of meditation). Now the question is… do they all lead to the same place?

      • P.S. I think you mentioned that Charles Upton recommended looking into St. Cyprian as the patron saint of reformed sorcerers? I haven’t read much about him, but Cyprian seems to be enjoying a revival in the occult world, with many of his works being translated into English for the first time. GW actually refers to him as “a saint on a mission.” 🙂

  8. I’d like to second the positive comments made by El Topo ( i to am a SW listener and owner of The Lucid View) Paul Dunbar, and Ryan.

  9. Jasun, I get, and appreciate, your intellectual fascination with many things. I truly think you’re on a journey toward truth. “The Greek”, however, is a demonstrable blaggard. He’s the sort of bloke at the party who’s done, seen and thought of everything and infinitely better than anyone else in the room. And still this isn’t enough for him. If confronted, as you did several times over the four parts, with information or logic he can’t square, he’ll take the contrarian approach.

    “No.” “Doesn’t matter.” “Not how it works.”

    Most young men, if so inclined, lose this bloviating narcissism in grade school. “The Greek” has matured this to the point where he’s a cult leader in search of a cult. Thankfully he’s only found a handful of those ‘who get it’.

  10. I’m still listening from the SW & aeolus times, like chasing a stick in a stream, I have to see what’s the next eddy or sticking point, where to next. The Liminal shall inherit…

  11. I am also a listener from the SW days & listen to just about every Liminalist podcast.
    You are one of the very few voices I bother listening to anymore — the rest seem to just be recycling old material, or are too polarized to be taken seriously. I recently listened to a Neil Kramer interview on Veritas from last December, and the experience served to remind me why I don’t listen to such people anymore.

  12. Stumbled on this excursion with the Greek. As someone who has listened to virtually everything he has posted online I enjoyed hearing an interview with a more probing counterpart. I enjoyed hearing him get somewhat uncomfortable.

    However, the reason he sounds so rehearsed is because he does rehearse. He views events more as a presentation than anything else. His disposition can be insufferable but some of the information has helped me along the path to some sort of peace.

    If a cult leader it seems unintentional to me. Some listeners have latched on hard but he appears and disappears on a whim. Gets sick of presentations and disappears for months at a time. Tends to pop back in with an expansion into different material eventually. I’ve never met a cult leader so disinterested in having followers.

    If one writes him they’d be lucky to get more than a few sentences back. The Greek doesn’t exactly pull people closer and lead them by the hand. Never heard him solicit donations for what he’s doing at the level he is doing it.

    I think you said it best with the comment that the world is becoming the apocalyptic place you were banging the drum about 20 years ago. How much further does it have to descend into chaos before people give credence to apocalyptic voices instead of jumping straight to bullshit artist.

    I, for one, think he’s probably over half right and hates hearing others talk more than he loves to hear himself talk. He’s led me to sources I wouldn’t have found otherwise. I’ve come to respect his misanthropic views even if I can’t seem to share them.

    Is his narrative or interpretation really that bad to most people’s ears? That there is a Creator above all others and this existence is a form of art. That previous creations are malevolent towards us. That they led us astray. That this was the best humans could be with the knowledge available at our creation. The Christ being a prototype of human 2.0. That we will ALL be resurrected into these advanced, less corruptible bodies and that the kingdom of heaven will eventually come to earth. Unfortunately, it requires our destruction. Sounds as true an interpretation as I’ve heard.

    Sorry for the rant but I think the Greek deserves a little defending. As do apocalyptic world views. I have never heard this man ask for a dime or even attention. Perhaps many of the visceral responses say more about the listener or the times in which we live than the Greek. Thanks for having him on.

    • thanks Chris; fair points all – tho to the last, is there a clear divide between ourselves, the times we live in, and The Greek, or whoever we are placing our attention on? For me, my distrust or aversion to the Greek was often one with my attraction to him, in that I recognized patterns of perception, communication, and interest from my past that eventually turned out to be dead-ends, albeit meaningful detours that have helped me identify unfamiliar dead-end routes.

      I agree there’s much of value in The Greek’s presentation, wouldn’t have talked to him otherwise.

  13. Sorry JASUN, but if you go digging, all you get is DIRTY!!! By reading some of the comments I gather, you’ve BECOME what you dislike, the leader of a CULT OF PERSONALITY!!!! Your CULT LEADER quip was repeated in comments so often, I got a vision of PARROTS ON PIRATES!!! The audience you’ve garnered over years of work, LIKE YOUR PERSONALITY! So when you speak, IT COMES OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS!!!! I say these things to say this, there’s a price for OATHS AND SORCERY, an UNEVEN YOKE to ADVERSARIAL SPIRITS! You started blind to LIES, now you’re blind to TRUTH!!! If you can discern even a little, you’ll serve THE MOST HIGH GOD, follow that God’s LAWS, and WAIT FOR THE MILLSTONE!!!!

    • Ironically, this comment seems to confirm the same dreadful possibility you came here to deny, complete with old world prophet caps and an inflated user name.

      More likely people echo my comment (and in fact magnified it, since I was on the fence about The Greek) because it’s what they observed for themselves.

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