The Liminalist 163: A Counterfeit for Incarnation (with Samuel Corwin)

Return conversation with Samuel Corwin; show notes pending.

Songs: “I’m Going Insane” & “15 Bistro 2” by Lee Maddeford; ” “Mountains Into Outer Space” and “A Storm of Light Ignites My Heart”by Richard Youngs.

5 thoughts on “The Liminalist 163: A Counterfeit for Incarnation (with Samuel Corwin)”

  1. Samuel’s statement about trauma genesis being the duty/responsibility of the “fallen angels” was interesting.

    I remember awhile back, maybe 10 years ago, a LARPer on one of the mainstream conspiracy forums was posting and claiming to be a member of the Illuminati. He said that their purpose was to create suffering in order to facilitate the spiritual progress of humanity. A divine role, so to speak. Maybe that’s why they’re so relentlessly motivated: they believe they’re doing good, and the end justifies the means.

    One of the rules of this universe seems to be that pain is required for growth. Which is unfortunate, since I would much rather live in a world where we learn through pleasure and joy. 🙂 That’s my idea of heaven!

    • It’s a complex dilemma, to be sure. And certainly a zen paradox.

      Jasun practices a most necessary ‘alchemy’ par excellence (though I’m sure, Jasun, you’d scoff at this term). Alchemy in the sense that he finds clarity—because it’s honest, I think—in investigating and exploring abhorrent aspects of humanity. To unravel the myriad of ways in which we’ve been spun is necessarily to reveal behavior rooted in sadism, manipulation, control, power, et al. Vicariously, I think myself and many other listeners have been able to glean some beauty (albeit tragic) in the rotten fruit Jasun has picked from the world tree.

      I’ve always become nauseous whenever I hear people talk about how good of a person Bill Gates is or Bono is. The idea of ‘world peace’ should go no further than beauty pageants. I’m beginning to shift my understanding of the word, suffering. Immediately, we’re prone to think of it as being something negative. There’s the risk of flipping the tables—wherein one wears one’s suffering like a badge of honor. Always, there is middle ground—liminal ground—to be found. To integrate suffering into one’s course of life as if it were the very means of its flow, or movement or change. We walk, we step on ants. We sit in lotus position too long, our legs fall off.

      That the Illuminati would be agents of suffering is an interesting idea, indeed. Though I don’t think it needs to be so metaphysical. Suffering is, despite agency or not. The Illuminati would think that ‘they’ are responsible for our finding enlightenment through the suffering inflicted upon us by them. How noble they are! I don’t mean to reduce them, but I do think the notion that they exist and control every facet of our experience is a trap (even if it’s true!).

      I’m thinking of this in musical terms now. Suffering is dissonance (discord). The true beauty of harmony is in its juxtaposition with dissonance.

  2. Always amazed how mature Samuel Crow is in his discourse. I hear the fear in his voice about letting go of facebook and it makes me angry at the people that have done this.
    Messr Horsley and myself can remember the pre internet world but this bloke surely cant, which makes his level of awareness all the more impressive.
    It cant be easy being a young adult in the world of incoherence, but dudes like this give me hope that all is not lost.
    Meanwhile i moulder as a decaying relic that occasionally croaks from the dusty corner.

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